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Walking Back In Time From 1600 To Antiquity By Decades. Looking For 440s

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Pillar of the Community
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 Posted 12/07/2016  09:46 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add january1may to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Meanwhile, I've been trawling through the Zeno database for the last two hours or so. Spoiler: while I wasn't very thorough, I couldn't find much in Central Asia either (and India is too complicated, but my cursory search also did not give any results).

My best result appears to be Ikhshid Tarkhun of Sogd (Zeno 700-710, Regnal Chronologies 700-711, Cambridge History ca. 700-709; the "700" part is quite uncertain, though: as far as I can tell, what is actually known is that he ruled for at least 9-10 years, that his reign ended in 710 or so when the Muslims attacked, and that someone else was still reigning in 698 - i.e. it's perfectly possible that his reign actually started in 699, which would disqualify it for this thread).

The safe option is Justinian II's second reign (708-715). Good luck; those things are rare (the solidi are less rare but obviously more expensive).

There's probably something better that I'm missing so far. (What's the current date attribution on the coin in Ancientnoob's avatar?)

EDIT: fixed the description - it's India that's too complicated, for the most part. The problem is that 700-709 is pretty much right when the Muslims started to overrun India, so the latest pre-Muslim coinages tend to be just too early, and the earliest Muslim coinages just too late.
Also, Zeno's classification for Indian coins tends to focus on the name and place (beyond the largest overarching categories), and I know little enough about Indian history that when I see another name along the lines of "Dothrakis of Marklar" (example obviously made up, but real ones sound pretty similar) I have no idea if it's 7th or 17th century.
EDIT 2: added some details on the Sogdian ruler.
Edited by january1may
12/07/2016 10:23 am
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Spence's Avatar
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 Posted 12/07/2016  8:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
India that's too complicated


I asked @drnsreedar over in the world coin section for his/her help. We will see if he can shake anything loose.
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
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 Posted 12/08/2016  10:46 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I asked @drnsreedar over in the world coin section for his/her help. We will see if he can shake anything loose.
Good idea.
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 Posted 12/08/2016  12:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Finn235 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think India is out for this one. As far as my research has taken me, 700-809 India was still in a sort of dark age after the Huns toppled the Gupta dynasty. Nearly all coins from this period are anepigraphic with uncertainty ranges well upward of half a century. The Maitraka dynasty are one of the few dynasties that put legends on their coins, but the legend is generic and the coins do not bear dates.

Likewise, I think Soghdiana and Chach are out; for the handful of coins that name a ruler; any extant information on said rulers is lost to history.

Maybe VisigothKing has a trick in his hat? 400-800 AD Europe seems to be his specialty.
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 Posted 12/08/2016  1:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add january1may to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I've actually mentioed, a few posts above, that there is, in fact, a known Sogdiana ruler whose reign apparently pretty much consisted of this decade. It would probably be hard to find any of his coins, however. (There was one on ebay at $50 BIN, but the seller stopped relisting it a few weeks ago, unfortunately.)

If we still don't find anything in a few more months, of course, there must be an awful lot of coins dated along the lines of "ca. 700-950" - so we can probably get away with posting something like that and proceeding that way. (There are, of course, an awful lot more options farther on, and I do not expect another big stumbling block for a while yet.)

Ancientnoob would have probably had some kind of "trick in his hat" too - the period is pretty much his speciality. (in Asia, that is, not Europe). He hadn't been seen for months, however.

...If we're still stuck by then, I'll ask for any second reign Justinian II coins next time I see that one Byzantine coin dealer at the Aurora fair. I probably won't be able to afford a solidus, though (maybe for metal value, and even then barely), and I doubt he has any of the copper.
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 Posted 12/10/2016  3:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
second reign Justinian II
Yes January1may, that would do. Unfortunately, all I see on vcoins at the moment are two gold solidi. Both are outside my purchase range.

On the plus side, my copy of Sear's book lists multiple varieties of follis and half-follis. Looks like the majority of these use the regnal year XX (corresponding to 705/706 AD), but perhaps this date was frozen for the majority of his final years?
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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 Posted 12/10/2016  5:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add january1may to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I've been looking all over VCoins for the last half hour trying to find a 700-709 coin.

The cheapest I found - ironically enough - was an Umayyad dirham, for $50.

You can get an Ikhshid Tarkhun coin too (they spell it "Turkhun"), but it would be even more expensive ($135).
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 Posted 12/18/2016  9:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
bump
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
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"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
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 Posted 01/09/2017  7:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
First bump of 2017...
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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 Posted 01/25/2017  10:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Next bump. Anyone out there have a coin minted between 700 and 710 AD? We'd love to have you post it and let us move this thread back in time by another decade.
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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 Posted 02/02/2017  1:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hi folks. We have been stuck on the decade of of the 700 to 710 for some time now and therefore I thought that it might be interesting to take a closer look at the rate of our progress on this thread since it was started back in January of 2015.

16th Century: 1 week
15th Century: 1 week
14th Century: 1 week
13th Century: 1 week
12th Century: 1.5 weeks
11th Century: 2 weeks
10th Century: 58 weeks (with me reanimating the thread in mid-May of 2016)
9th Century: 19 weeks
8th Century: 17 weeks (so far)

"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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jbuck's Avatar
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 Posted 02/02/2017  2:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I hope the eight century does not break the record set by the tenth.
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