How Far Back Can We Go? Seventh Edition!

I have gone back and re-read the last five pages twice now.

I conclude that John's coin is dated AH 742; regardless of when in that lunar year it was minted, it counts for that year.

I also conclude that the majority of CE 1341 overlaps with AH 742. This is for both Julian (beginning June 17) and Gregorian (June 25).

Therefore, I propose that we can proceed to CE 1340 (740 AH).

All in favour say Aye, those opposed say No.

As an update on the previous post, I would say now that the coins do exist, having just seen a swathe of them on Zeno (94784). However, the debate is still ongoing as to whether or not they are an anachronism. The date on the obverse is definitely 741, and the Khan is Jani Beg. But on the reverse is also a 7. Some comments on Zeno infer the meaning as year 7, making the coin 747. Others are just as adamant that the coin is 741.

I'm still inclined to say Aye, if for no other reason than to move the year back to 1340.

Just a friendly bump to get more opinions on my proposal.

Update: I am now about 70% sure that the article I found was this one (I recognize the setup). If so, I must have utterly misread it.

Here's what it actually claims:

- the article's author believes that Özbeg had very likely only died in 1342 CE (late AH 742 or even early AH 743)
[this was seemingly the part I focused on originally]
- nevertheless, he also believes that the AH 741 dated coins of Jani Beg are probably real and probably actually dated AH 741
- (the article goes into some detail over why he thinks this is the case)
- (in particular, he suggests a plausible-sounding, though very elaborate, explanation for the year 7 date)
- there is apparently also one more possible type of AH 741 Jani Beg coins in addition to the year 7 type, though it is very scantily attested
- it is plausible that Tini Beg continued issuing coins in Özbeg's name, which accounts for the AH 742 Özbeg coins even if Özbeg actually died in AH 741
- (are there any coins at all in Tini Beg's own name? the article doesn't seem to answer that one way or another; from other sources, apparently the answer is "no")
- it is [according to the article] also plausible that Jani Beg actually started issuing coins in his name even prior to Özbeg's death

Other sources seem to mostly agree with each other that Özbeg died in 1341 CE and that Jani Beg was crowned in 1342 CE after a brief reign by Tini Beg (who, as mentioned, seemingly did not issue coins in his name).


TL/DR: I am also voting Aye, and, most likely, if I didn't happen to misread an article that I also unaccountably didn't bother to link, we could have progressed back in July.

I strongly apologize for the mess, and next time if I try to do any strong claims like that, I will at least try to make sure to explicitly cite my sources.


P.S. Fedor Yermolov (Qutluq_Bulsun) on the Rasmir forums repeatedly insists, apparently on die link grounds, that the "741" coins are misreadings for 749. Zeno calls them "probably anachronism". (Zeno also doesn't have any AH 741 coins from any other Golden Horde khan either.) I honestly don't know what to believe any more.

It is all good, J1M.

I do no believe anyone is going to oppose, so I am going to update the title today.

Just the one objection. This is the Seventh Edition.....

I'm hearing you. I have sent some really confusing and embarrassing texts and emails thanks to auto-complete.