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 Replies: 25 / Views: 2,448 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2168 Posts |
Yes a rock and a hard place about just taking out or putting in your own $ I never came near the amounts but read an article about someone that was convicted because it was stated he took lesser amt to avOid the reporting. I don't know if the person was hiding something or not but somehow it didn't matter. From what I recall not a large total amt either.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1432 Posts |
I can't say for sure but I believe the only tracking is done on cash deposits, not withdrawals. I worked for a lending institution that made everything from $500 personal loans to $250K mortgages. Had a few mortgage customers who paid by cash monthly in the branch. Feds required when we applied the payments to the acct we had to indicate if it was cash, check or money order. Once they passed the $10K threshold in "any running 12 month period" the computer churned out a report that had to be forwarded to our HQ with Soc Sec #'s & copies of photo ID obtained at the time of loan closing. Big Brother is Watching!
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2168 Posts |
It is cash in and out I believe.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2335 Posts |
I've kind of been on the outskirts of this discussion but I am curious. From what I can gather it seems like there might be an issue with cash withdrawals. I've never had a problem walking into my bank & getting any amount of cash I wanted as long as I had the funds on deposit. Granted I rarely get more than a few thousand at any one time to take to auctions/estate sales where I can't cut a check. Are we talking about getting funds in the 5 to 6 figure range?
While I don't agree with the $10k reporting rules I don't worry about it. The bank maintains a record of any transaction which is readily available if the government decides to check into it.....irregardless of amounts. The only way to maintain a "low profile" is to deal strictly in cash.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2168 Posts |
These days its getting harder and harder for all to use just cash. Of course that's a see something say someting tattle tale as well. Even unemployment and ss pmts only direct deposit or visa card. Why can't we just live our lives and be left alone. People want some privacy and its not for committing crimes it is just to live and let live
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1733 Posts |
It's funny you say this, because I've taken to trading in coins (like regular coins) for $100 banknotes and stuffing them in the safety deposit box. Not a lot mind you, but well over what you could get in a withdrawal from any branch without advance notice. Even when you do say something like, "I need you to order in 200 $100 dollar bills please", they get all sly and psycho on you. This is a substantial amount yes, but it's sure not a lot in this day and age of million dollar homes.
Crikey, I just wanted to do some banknote searching it wasn't like I was off to buy drugs from my Bolivian connection. Ticks me off because it's MY frigging money and they presume you are guilty of some heinous money laundering operation in advance of the fact.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2168 Posts |
I think 100s are harder to change and some places don't even take them at times
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
4008 Posts |
Quote:
I think 100s are harder to change and some places don't even take them at times I wonder what part of "this note is legal tender for all debts public and private" that they do not understand? Yes, I know that they are probably don't have enough cash on hand to want to change a large bill but that's pretty lame, IMO. It would be lame of me if I went to such a place and bought a small item and then presented a large bill in payment but anyone buying a significant amount of things from their store should be able to use a $50 or a $100 bill to pay for them. It should work both ways. The customer should be considerate and the store should be as flexible as they need to be to make sales. Also, my reason for having larger bills is for buying gold and silver coins at shows, so there won't be a lot of change making going on there. I could use $10s and $20s, I suppose, but would need a shopping bag full to get the job done. Quote:
Even when you do say something like, "I need you to order in 200 $100 dollar bills please", they get all sly and psycho on you. Maybe that is when we say, "Yes, but I am leaving the other 95% of my money in my accounts". |
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Valued Member
United States
410 Posts |
Structuring is covered in Title 31 of the United States Code, section 5324. It says that you are guilty of structuring if you break up transactions into smaller transactions to avoid triggering mandatory reporting of cash transactions greater than $10,000. If found guilty, structuring is punishable by a fine or up to five years in prison, or both. If you handle more than $100,000 in a 12 month period you can get 10 years. http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi...06&TYPE=TEXTIt is not just banks that are required to report cash transaction greater than $10,000. Car dealers, jewelers, etc must also report large cash transactions. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2168 Posts |
Yes. All businesses forgot about that. Thanks for the link
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4008 Posts |
Something tells me that this so-called "structuring" is usually a charge that they add on when other charges that are easier to prove have already been made. Obviously, a person could very well take money out of their bank account based on convenience or need that could appear as structuring to someone... particularly someone who was looking for just that kind of activity... when it is not. If I need $5-8k from my account, for example, I need it for a reason. Typically, that would be because I was going to a coin or gun show and wanted it for buying merchandise. I did not get $10-16k from my account because that would be more than I needed for a single show and did not want to have that much money sitting around until the next show comes. So, is this structuring? Not in my mind. But is it in someone elses' mind?
It is unfortunate when someones' guilt or innocence can depend upon someone elses' opinion of what happened rather than what, in fact, did happen. I am sure that there are cases wherein nefarious activities are in progress and actual structuring is occurring. I just hope that such things are approached in a reasonable manner based upon the situation at hand and not in a one size fits all manner. Something like this smacks of "guilty until proven innocent". Not that this would be the only instance of this, of course. Some say that the IRS operates in this manner.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2168 Posts |
Yes it is very easy to fit the situation. I used to work in a bank years ago and never knew of the structuring. I did know if people withdrew or deposited lesser amounts they were watched. The structuring is very scary if amounts seem to be around the amount. I know it gets reported and the customer knows if the place reporting doesn't consider it suspicious. If not in secret,
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Valued Member
United States
410 Posts |
My personal opinion, as long as all of your income is above board you don't have to worry about structuring. Dealing in a large amount of cash may draw attention. As long as you can document how you got the money it isn't a problem. However, dealing in a large amount of cash when you don't seem to have any form of legitimate income is a red flag. That is when they will want you to prove where the income came from. Remember, they didn't get Al Capone for bootlegging, the got him on tax evasion.
As an example, last year I was a licensed auto dealer. Nothing big time but I bought and sold vehicles as a side business and worked only in cash. Before I went to the auction I would withdraw a lot of cash from my bank. When I sold a vehicle I deposited the cash from that sale. I'm sure those transaction were recorded but I'm not worried because everything was done by the book.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2168 Posts |
You know I guess it is just all the watching tracking and telling on that just makes me sick. Just read an article how microchips will be in medications to alert doctor on medication and when you take it or not. Notifies dr and keeps track! More watching and no privacy
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4008 Posts |
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However, dealing in a large amount of cash when you don't seem to have any form of legitimate income is a red flag. Indeed it is... as well it should be, IMO. Money laundering and drugs are very serious problems. I want the police to catch these people and the courts to punish them as severely as the law allows. At the same time, I also want that to be balanced with protection of our basic liberties. This is not an easy task but it would be very worthwhile to make the best effort at it that we can. Quote:
Remember, they didn't get Al Capone for bootlegging, the got him on tax evasion. Yes, they did. Elliot Ness strikes again!  Quote:
The structuring is very scary if amounts seem to be around the amount. I know it gets reported and the customer knows if the place reporting doesn't consider it suspicious. Yes, it would make me suspicious too if someone were doing $9999 or $9995 transactions all over town. The sum of all those transactions could be a considerable sum of money and the figures could indicate that they did not want to cross that $10k line. |
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Posted 01/16/2012 10:28 pm
