1863 Bronze Indian Head Cent

I always find it difficult to grade slabbed coins from pictures but if all the marks are on the slab I would say that it is at least a 64, and if the picture is a true representation of color I would guess RB. That is a nice IHC.

robbudo, thanks for sharing! Fantastic coin!

After looking at what has passed through Heritage, I would give it a PR65. It may qualify as a RD; I think it can really only be determined in hand. I'm not sure what percentage Red it needs to be to qualify as such. May find the answer poking around Rick's site.

It might be the lighting, but the color doesn't seem quite right (yes I know it is bronze). Was it conserved?

I believe that the CuNi Indian cents would not receive a Red or RedBrown designation, but you stated that it was a pattern in Bronze, can Bronze cents receive RD or RB designations?

I'd just sit pretty on it. Those holders, themselves, go for premiums. Everybody is going to know that coin grades better than PR62BN in today's liberal market, once they see it in that conservative "doily" holder.

I am not sure I quite understand why you cannot resubmit it. It looks better than PR-62 BN. I was going to make a guess of PR-64 RB but I do find proofs to be much more challenging to grade from pictures because hairlines sometimes only show up at specific lighting angles.

Robbudo, Do you see a reason that doesn't show up in the pictures that this coin would only grade 62?

robbudo,

I would recommend sending this coin to Rick Snow. For just $4 he will grade it and give you the skinny on the color. A very nice coin, it is more than worth it to have Rick check it out. Getting it photosealed may be a good idea on this coin too, and can help fetch a premium.

I can assure you, that coin is not BN. In today's grading environment, I would expect more like a PR65RB. Big difference, but color seems a bit odd (might be the light). Old holders are a sign that IHCs may not be properly graded.

Are you a Fly-in Club member?

Russ

I'll chime in at MS65 RB, because from the photos I don't see any clues as to why this IHC got a PF...no shine at all in the fields and no matte finish as seen on other IHC proofs, so I'll go out on a large limb and hand you a chainsaw--it's a Pattern/Test coin--much more unique and rare than a proof!

It's unfortunate that you can't weigh the coin, although PCGS might be able to give you the exact weight in grains of the OGH for small cents and you can then do the simple subtraction from total weight. I have an 1863 bronze IHC that is clearly one of the bronze Pattern or Test coins mentioned in Rick Snow's 1st Edition in 1992 (with an R8 rarity of 1-3 pieces), as it's a very THICK planchet and it weighs in @ 74.2 grains. It's visibly thicker than any 1859-1863 Cu-Ni, yet the bronze alloy has a lighter tone (more white/yellow) than the later bronzes of 1864 onward, and is CLEARLY more red than a Cu-Ni. I've seen descriptions of patterns in 1863 struck in Aluminum, Brass, and another blend of bronze alloy--one different than the final alloy mix of 95%Cu;3%Sn;2%Zn. This appears to be one of them.

It's off to Rick this month for attribution--because it has additional traits worthy of note: a hub rotated DDR (CW 2-3 degrees,) an offset hub DDO (to the NE approx .5mm,) and a RPD to the west (1863/8) that's visible inside the lower loop of the "8" on the left, as well as a slight amount in the upper loop--not a currently named Snow variety of the RPD in an 1863. I can't stop looking at it! I plan on posting the results of Rick's review in addition to photos after it returns from Arizona.