1858 Seated Liberty Half ...

"hammered half to death between the dies of a double eagle, 1 dollar gold, and the seated half dies themselves"

Are you sure of that?

This one is so busy and has been struck so many times that it's hard to find much of anything that's coherent. I see pieces of lettering, poms from the 1 dollar gold obverse ... but dismiss all of that for a second and riddle me this ... under what circumstances would a coin be worn to this point and retain a wire edge? Also, look at the rim of the shield ... toward the bottom in particular ... that's not worn. There's no way that this damage wasn't mechanically inflicted. Also, the little dots on the rim would not be present if this coin was worn to this state.

I theorize that somebody at the mint had a little prfit sharing gig ... intentionally placing coins between the dies of gold denominations and trying to get small amounts of gold to stick to the coins, which could be smuggled out of the mint easier than a small vial of gold. It's a theory ... but clearly something was going on for the years 1857 and 1858. There are too many coins with positive impressions of gold denominations imprinted on them. There's a 57 flying eagle in crappy condition with a couple flecks of gold showing that I may buy and drop into a vessel of nitric acid just to see what's left. That will definitely answer whether or not these specks I am seeing on these cents and halves are actually gold imparted from the dies. I wouldn't dissolve a half ... and I'm not sure that nitric acid would dissolve the silver anyway, but the cent I'm talking abut would be less than 10 dollars delivered, so that's a not a huge investment to prove to myself that these flecks are indeed gold.

This all raises more questions than answers. I hve looked at hundreds of flying eagle images today. I've been doing it for a couple weeks. I don't believe the 1858/7 to be an overdate at all ... but a by product of prodction related to inter denominational clashing. There are subtle differences from one example to another, and one of the best examples I've looked at has significant clashing (in the traditional sense, blank and lacking detail ...just an outline) and it appears to me to be the inside corner where 2 leaves bisect in a wreath reverse.

I found one FE that's so "busy" and just too cheap to pass up. It's pretty much a poster child for this phenomena.

I sneak in here and post between jobs, and I work at home, so I have to be careful about how much time I take playing in my photo editing software. This half has so much going on that it'd be just as useful for somebody looking at it to enlarge it themselves and really spend time studying it. Study the other denomination designs too. You can't see what you can't identify.

Chance

Frankly ... I don't have to prove anything to you. You can see it as you wish.

Chance

Looks like weak strike or just its of wear. If It was stuck between other coins, we would easily see the imprints.

Idhair is well known ATS (across the street) and I agree with him

Sorry again Chance but you should not be posting fiction as fact.
New collectors will take it as being true.
Everything you keep posting about gold die clashes is false information.
I would guess you are enlarging images beyond what they are able to show.
At that point imagination takes over.
Yes I understand that you don't care what a new member has to say.
Hope you can get over that.

If you look back a few posts ... I specifically said that it was a theory. You do know what a theory is, don't you?

By the way ... I recognized the attitude from "across the street". That's why I left there. The condescension is far too prevalent. There's no room for conjecture. There are only 2 classes of members. There are "know it alls" and "know nothings".

Chance

Debate is healthy. That's how we learn. At the same time, I will choose my words more carefully. My post were too much to the point and obviously insulting to Chance. I'm sorry for that. I didn't join here to insult anyone.

With that said, I'll still be posting on threads on this topic. I really want for someone to actually find something new. That would be at the top on my cool list. Debate and passion for the hobby make this type of stuff happen.

A theory on the original coin posted is die grease. Could explain both the weak devices and strange toning.

I think it is important to remain constructive here.

Criticism and the exploration of alternatives is what drives our hobby to find and solve new mysteries. However, an abrasive or short approach might illustrate one as closed-minded and inconsiderate of another's assertions. It works both ways.

I'm glad to see the two of you making up, lol.