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Now That's One Serious Indian Head!

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Pillar of the Community
United States
1903 Posts
 Posted 10/21/2013  8:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add unholyroller to your friends list
Because the 1933 St Gaudens was never released to the public. With rare exceptions, any 1933 in circulation can assumed to have been stolen. In the case of this coin, it is highly probable these were done on purpose for a collector or polital figure. If memory serves me correct, there was a time when congress members preferred to be paid in $2.50 gold pieces, this may have simply been a request by a Representative or Senator for something "different" than the usual $2.50 gold coin. Seems plausible
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 Posted 10/21/2013  8:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DNA to your friends list
No "Best Offer" box...

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 Posted 10/21/2013  8:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add solotime to your friends list
It looks more like a proof to me.

I agree @DNA, he needs the best offer thing.
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 Posted 10/21/2013  9:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add denco7 to your friends list

Quote:
it is highly probable these were done on purpose for a collector or political figure


It is hard to term this coin an "error" coin. It most definitely is not an error.It was purposely made for someone and purposely kept in MS65 condition. no mint error happened here.

The more interesting story is how Mike Byers, with 0.00 positive feedback, has $4,000,000 worth of coins to sell on ebay.

David Lawrence he is not.

EDIT: Ok upon further review, his ebay presence and rather uninspired website, does belie his apparent reputation. Maybe he is DL junior
Edited by denco7
10/21/2013 9:57 pm
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23522 Posts
 Posted 10/21/2013  10:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list

Quote:
EDIT: Ok upon further review, his ebay presence and rather uninspired website, does belie his apparent reputation. Maybe he is DL junior


Mike Byers doesn't need a flashy website or thousands of ebay feedbacks to cement his reputation as, along with Fred Weinberg, the top of the food chain when it comes to true "errors." The fact that some of these "errors" were deliberate does not subtract from their numismatic significance or value, in the broader opinion of numismatists.

Mike has turned his concentration on gold recently. The last time I saw his table - at FUN last January - gold was all he had on display. Not just gold, but Gold - ever seen a "Specimen" strike from Dahlonega? Likely not; there's only one. He's got it for you, if you've got $1,000,000 to spend.
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United States
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 Posted 10/21/2013  11:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add denco7 to your friends list

Quote:
The fact that some of these "errors" were deliberate does not subtract from their numismatic significance or value, in the broader opinion of numismatists.


Yeah but Dave, can they really be classified as "errors", no one questions their value or collectabilty but historical or numismatic significance ? They are valuable because many are one of a kind.But unlike the 37D three legged buffalo or the no D '22 penny which were genuinely worn dies, The 1933 Eagles, the 1913 V nickels, even the no edge lettering Presidential dollars and probably the 1943 copper and 1944 steel pennies were all made and snuck out by theives. Can we really classify these as numismatically significant "errors" ?
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 Posted 10/22/2013  12:08 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ExoGuy to your friends list
There are horticulturalists who create new new types or strains of roses. A rose by any other name is still a rose, and an error by any other name will still be an error, methinks. In other words, the means, being intentional or not, doesn't define the end result ... eh, what?

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 Posted 10/22/2013  12:33 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add denco7 to your friends list
To create a new strain of rose by interbreeding is one thing, but to sneak in to the lab and cut two roses in half and glue the two halves together and shreik " freak of nature " look at the rose nature has created by mistake, is entirely different :-)
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 Posted 10/22/2013  12:55 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list

Quote:
Yeah but Dave, can they really be classified as "errors", no one questions their value or collectabilty but historical or numismatic significance ?


I'll hang with you on that; rather than calling them (the stuff you and I are both referring to) "errors," we should probably call them "deliberates." It's truth. The historical significance is probably up for debate, and opinions on either side are of equal strength. IMO the numismatic significance doesn't change either way.

The "Proof" 1921 Morgan issues are pretty much proven to have been executed specifically because two people, Farran Zerbe and Henry Chapman, wanted them. They had nothing to do with any official plan on the part of the Mint, and indeed it appears that no bespoke "Proof" dies were produced to that end. But there they are, unofficial as anything, yet considered part of the numismatic mainstream.

That couldn't happen today. Yet, back in that time, such unofficial operations *did* happen regularly - examples abound - and it's in the context that they're considered somewhat "normal" operations of the Mint in that era where their numismatic value accrues. I feel that it's a mistaken application of modern morality (probably a poor word for this) to a far different time where one finds argument against coins like this as having genuine importance of some type.
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 Posted 10/22/2013  01:43 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add perfessor to your friends list
This sure looks like it was intentionally made as an error. How else would you explain the gold planchet and the incuse strike on the reverse? That is 2 things wrong on the same coin. Not a coincidence. But it is still really cool. I would love to have this coin.
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 Posted 10/22/2013  01:49 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Susuman to your friends list
In my opinion, this type of coin should be referred to as an 'Undocumented Pattern.'
Edited by Susuman
10/22/2013 01:50 am
Pillar of the Community
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9792 Posts
 Posted 10/22/2013  03:22 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westcoin to your friends list
I like this as an error very unusual, but Id rather have Mike's 2¢ piece with a full brockerage in mint state, he was asking around $125K last I saw.
"Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013!
ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2¢ variety collector.

See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440
Valued Member
United States
315 Posts
 Posted 10/22/2013  05:11 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Superhal to your friends list
I think this coin came up a few weeks ago, the general consensus is that they're just trying to drive up the price with no real intention to sell.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts
 Posted 10/22/2013  3:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add just carl to your friends list

Quote:
This sure looks like it was intentionally made as an error. How else would you explain the gold planchet and the incuse strike on the reverse? That is 2 things wrong on the same coin. Not a coincidence. But it is still really cool. I would love to have this coin.

I never knew those could be so valuable. And here I've got an entire roll of them, never opened and UNSEARCHED.
And one nice thing about this add is FREE SHIPPING.
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1053 Posts
 Posted 10/23/2013  8:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinDan98 to your friends list
$600,000!! wow!
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