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Bedrock of the Community
United States
19951 Posts |
Quote:
I'll tell you what. I wish I would have invested yesterday. The IPO was at $68 a share its currently at 92.34 and climbing as I type.92.50 92.61 92.74 The $68 price is a joke. I watched it from open until end and the lowest it went in the real market was $89. IMO, this is a suckers bet. I've been trading stocks for over 20 years and know first hand about owning stock in Chinese companies. I will NEVER own one again! I stayed far, far away from this joke of an IPO (you don't actually own shares of the company). |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
9792 Posts |
I listened to the NPR report and story on the Alibaba story last night, it was quite interesting, started by a teenager. Now worth more than Amazon and ebay combined! Not a fan of the counterfeit items they allow, but they are much larger than just a coin marketplace. "Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013! ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2¢ variety collector. See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440 |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
4592 Posts |
Actually you can't own shares in AB. You are buying American Depository Receipts (ADRs). https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/...9_ex99-a.htmUsually the ADSes represent 1 or 1/n or n shares of the actual stock. Placed in escrow. Net some fees you get the dividends paid and the price of the ADR closely tracks the underlying stock. Royal Dutch Shell is probably the most commonly owned ADR. This isn't that... the entire ownership structure is opaque. http://www.bloomberg.com/video/alib...Mny4YVA.html (caution autoplay) So if you bought AB's 'shares', you bought an ADR for a master holding company in the Cayman Islands that owns bits and pieces of companies that own other companies that own companies in China that have agreements with companies wholly owned or controlled by Jack Ma. http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2014/05...e-structure/Quote:
What exactly will shareholders be buying, you may be asking. In Tuesday's securities filing, Alibaba revealed the answer. Quote:
The Chinese e-commerce behemoth will wholly own its non-Chinese assets, which provide the bulk of its revenue, according to the filing. Alibaba will not own most of its Chinese assets, including Taobao Marketplace and Alibaba.com. So the companies that are the core of Alibaba's Chinese operations â€" the main reason for the anticipated heated investor demand â€" will not even be owned by Alibaba. The Times article goes on to discuss the "VIE" structure... and then this bombshell Quote:
If it all sounds too neat, there are two significant risks with the V.I.E. structure â€" risks that Alibaba has bluntly acknowledged.
The structure may be illegal under Chinese law since it conveniently circumvents those prohibitions on foreign investment. ... Quote:
The S.E.C. cannot ban offerings for being "too risky" or even for potentially being illegal. The only thing the regulator can do is require disclosure of the risks. It has done so here: Alibaba, in its prospectus, states that if the V.I.E. structure is ruled illegal, then Alibaba's business may be significantly harmed and substantial fines might be imposed. Anyway, that's my issue with AliBaba, not the goods for sale. You can find counterfeit goods on ebay. Heck, one of my favorite coin show dealers had a page of copies today that weren't marked. The goods for sale on AliBaba/AliExpress are legal under Chinese law. I did find it interesting that AliExpress won't sell to Washington state because - apparently - the way AE handles escrow is illegal under WA law. But that's typical of mail order and internet - minimal adherence to local laws. But there's no way I'm buying a virtual share and hoping that Mr. Ma - with all of the history saying he won't - will act honestly with the 'shareholders'. -----Burton 50+ year / Life / Emeritus ANA member (joined 12/1/1973) Life member: Numismatics International, CONECA Member: TNA, FtWCC, NETCC, EveryCountry (online) coin club Owned by three cats and a wife of 40+ years (joined 1983) Author: 3rd Edition of the Sample Slabs book, https://www.sampleslabs.info/ |
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Moderator
 United States
16679 Posts |
Jack Ma founded it in 1999 with $60,000 invested. It's now a $231 billion dollar company.
Nuts!
swcoin.ecrater.com
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Moderator
United States
188560 Posts |
Heard on the news this weekend... Alibubble.  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3453 Posts |
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Alibubble Awesome!  I read about the suspected alibaba effect last week on US tech stocks but did not put 2 and 2 together. Can't wait for the alibubble-burst. |
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Valued Member
United States
269 Posts |
You know, Alibaba dont make or sell anything, its just like ebay only BIGGER, ebay is just as bad now allowing all the fakes to be auctioned So in my book, ebay & Alibaba = same thing except Alibaba is bigger Where do I sign up for an account on Alibaba? |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4592 Posts |
aliexpress.com is the b2c site. It's a subset/superset of the b2b site with manufacturers and wholesalers doing small lot sales, down to 1 piece. Exactly the same as the BIN from Hong Kong or Shenzhen on ebay. The AliExpress site is not quite as easy to use as ebay - almost none of the sellers are native speakers of English so things can be hard to search for, but they are working on the site every day improving things - the front page is as well laid out and easy to use as ebay. -----Burton 50+ year / Life / Emeritus ANA member (joined 12/1/1973) Life member: Numismatics International, CONECA Member: TNA, FtWCC, NETCC, EveryCountry (online) coin club Owned by three cats and a wife of 40+ years (joined 1983) Author: 3rd Edition of the Sample Slabs book, https://www.sampleslabs.info/ |
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Valued Member
United States
269 Posts |
Wasnt serious about an Alibaba account, just making a point  |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2519 Posts |
I think this is getting too far - Yahoo Indonesia is running 3 articles on Alibaba (in a positive light) at the same time.  |
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Valued Member
United States
269 Posts |
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I think this is getting too far - Yahoo Indonesia is running 3 articles on Alibaba (in a positive light) at the same time. If I had a 20% stake as do Yahoo,i would promote them also |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3789 Posts |
YHOO fell the other day because its already been priced into the stock price for a long time....and as the IPO rolled around the obvious trade and correct trade was to sell yahoo and then that triggered fresh rounds of short selling.
as it broke certain price levels on the way down, YHOO triggered other traders and desks to sell short. Desks all over the world were banking coins all day on a very simple, easy well done trade, it was textbook.
BABA, the ones making money on this are first the underwriters. Next are high net worth investors who are placed shares BEFORE the IPO day, they then can flip the shares they received at 68 for 90 as an example.
right now unless you are an intra-day trader it will be very difficult to make money on the stock, it has no price history.
Investing in the company also brings risk as well.
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Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
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Investing in the company also brings risk as well. Very true. Fortunately, from the looks of things you can't actually invest in the company itself. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
3692 Posts |
Retailers are the same as the manufacturers in that they push the same product; they live off the same end-user. When a market like this is allowed to thrive they are just as culpable as the manufacturer; it's called abetting, whether they make the product or not, whether they sell directly or not .
It blows my mind that a site has the name of the world's greatest thief but people look the other way. That mentality will prevail until people themselves become victim to scammers. They probably generate enough taxes so that the people on top look the other way.
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Valued Member
Canada
65 Posts |
And this just came in today:
"Alibaba Group Holding Ltd.'s financial affiliate won approval from Chinese authorities to establish a privately owned bank, regulators said Monday, as the e-commerce giant moves further into financial services.
The China Banking Regulatory Commission said it gave approval to start a bank to a financial affiliate of Alibaba Group that also is the parent company of Alipay, which processes e-commerce payments and is crucial to Alibaba's operations. It said the bank would be headquartered in Hangzhou, the eastern..."
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Replies: 27 / Views: 4,403 |
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Posted 09/20/2014 10:51 pm
