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Constantius II Camp Gate (Recent Auction)

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Pillar of the Community
United States
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 Posted 10/29/2014  2:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add FVRIVS RVFVS to your friends list
Do the four 'turrets' look odd in any way ?

I may be reading more into this than I should but I still get the feeling that something is 'different' about this piece.
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United States
23731 Posts
 Posted 10/29/2014  2:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add echizento to your friends list
They do look like soldiers holding shields.
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United States
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 Posted 10/29/2014  3:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add FVRIVS RVFVS to your friends list
I am only questioning this because we seem to have seen high quality fakes of Constantinian ae's of late. Some even going so far as to 'salt' them into group lots of otherwise good coins. The coin seems almost too good. It may only be my paranoia showing but the lettering reminds me of the fake Nero. Looking at some other Arles issues I do not see the forked crowns on the letters I V and N which I see here.

Later Constantine issues are not really my area. I could be completely wrong. I rather hope I am !
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Netherlands
1204 Posts
 Posted 10/29/2014  3:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dutchgulden to your friends list
Like I said before: it concerns me, I'm careful with these late roman bronzes, too many fakes are being sold on ebay right now
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 Posted 10/29/2014  3:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add FVRIVS RVFVS to your friends list
Noooooo ....... really ?

The examples I looked at seemed to have block lettering. The letter I having a cap and a base.
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 Posted 10/29/2014  3:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add FVRIVS RVFVS to your friends list
My response was not to your comment Dutch
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Netherlands
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 Posted 10/29/2014  4:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dutchgulden to your friends list
haha I know furius
Valued Member
United Kingdom
435 Posts
 Posted 10/29/2014  4:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Valecrucis to your friends list
FVRIVS I think you have a point. It is not a problem I would have noticed myself, I have to be honest. But I have just been through several hundred camp gate LRBs online and a couple of dozen good grade LRBs of my own....not one showed those flow lines. Even saying that, I would not be certain it was an indication that it was fake. I also did a little search to see if anyone else was talking about the presence of flow lines on LRBs being a warning sign and could find nothing. There is nothing else about the coin that looks wrong to my eye. If it turns out to be a fake then very well spotted.

Btw. Hawkhybrid...one often sees one or more letters much flatter than the rest of the legend...or absent. This is due to a plugged die from a previous strike.
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 Posted 10/29/2014  5:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add FVRIVS RVFVS to your friends list
What started me questioning this coin was the four turrets. Some think they look like soldiers ...... Personally I thought of a biker gang ! When I looked at some of the other Arles coins the letters started to look somewhat odd. When I noticed the "flow" lines I was reminded of my fake Nero. They look like they may be faux flow lines purposely made to decieve.
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 Posted 10/29/2014  6:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add FVRIVS RVFVS to your friends list
Perhaps I was less than clear on this point.
My use of quotation marks indicates my uncertainty that they are real flow lines and not 'enhanced' by the shape of the letters.
Nero displays some curiously shaped lettering although the 'forking' is at the bottom and thus cannot be confused with the outward expansion of the planchet during strike.

I cannot help but note a certain annoyance on your part. I have no dog in this. I did not purchase this coin nor did I even know its source until late last night.
You say you have seen many like it. I have no reason to doubt you.

For myself I remain unconvinced !
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 Posted 10/29/2014  6:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Paul Bulgerin to your friends list
Beast Coins has a very nice research site with a number of similar coins to which you can compare this one.

http://www.beastcoins.com/RomanImpe...es/Arles.htm
Paul Bulgerin
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 Posted 10/29/2014  6:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add echizento to your friends list
If this coin is fake it has to be one of the best fakes I've seen of LRB coins. Looking at the reverse the only thing that might give me a little concern is when you look between the bricks of the gate the fabric look coarse what you would expect to see on a brand new brick. I wouldn't thing that the Romans put that much detail in this type of coin.
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 Posted 10/29/2014  7:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add FVRIVS RVFVS to your friends list
Looking through the examples in beast coins I see some few with flow lines. But the letters I & V on this one still look odd to me. They appear as if they were intended to flow.
High quality fakes are not unknown. This coin sold for $120.
Technology has progressed to the point where making the dies is not beyond the reach of a talented forger. Buy up some large lots of uncleaned LRB's on the cheap and you have your alloy with all the right trace elements provided you use a clean crucible and dont spoil the 'broth'.

It may well be a genuine coin. But meanwhile I will take a pass
Edited by FVRIVS RVFVS
10/29/2014 7:41 pm
Valued Member
United Kingdom
435 Posts
 Posted 10/29/2014  8:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Valecrucis to your friends list
Flow lines are commonly seen on half decent fakes and are an entirely unreliable indicator of authenticity, taken by themselves. This has little bearing on the present discussion, I realise...which raises the theory that flow lines in certain circumstances might even be considered unusual or a cause for concern. It's an interesting theory. I agree with you FVRIVS that the ones on this coin are a little odd looking...but on balance I would still expect the coin to be genuine.

Edited by Valecrucis
10/29/2014 8:46 pm
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United Kingdom
3626 Posts
 Posted 10/30/2014  07:54 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pishpash to your friends list
Rightly or wrongly, I do tend to associate flow lines with silver coins rather than bronze. I will have to keep my eyes open more :)
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