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Vice Job Or Incredibly Rare Brockage?

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 Posted 03/01/2015  3:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add just carl to your friends list
IF real why not have it authenticated?
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 Posted 03/01/2015  3:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BStrauss3 to your friends list
Carl: Absolutely - if it were real I'd recommend having it slabbed.

But TypeCoin has tagged a distinct marker that says it's fake.
-----Burton
50+ year / Life / Emeritus ANA member (joined 12/1/1973)
Life member: Numismatics International, CONECA
Member: TNA, FtWCC, NETCC, EveryCountry (online) coin club
Owned by three cats and a wife of 40+ years (joined 1983)

Author: 3rd Edition of the Sample Slabs book, https://www.sampleslabs.info/
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 Posted 03/01/2015  6:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list
I thought about the odd date, considered what wear and/or a hit at the top of the 3 would do, and considered how that might look transferred as a counterbrockage and then circulated some. Yes, some of it doesn't compute easily.

I would still have spent the money, and then dissected it under my own lenses.
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 Posted 03/02/2015  12:02 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add thq to your friends list
Just another vice perpetrated with a vise.

Nice.
"Two minutes ago I would have sold my chances for a tired dime." Fred Astaire
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 Posted 03/02/2015  11:49 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list

Quote:
Just another vice perpetrated with a vise.


How'd they do it? Where's the underlying detail? Heck, if the coin was at original weight and diameter - something we don't know - I would consider a vise job impossible. As it is, pretty darn unlikely.
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 Posted 03/02/2015  12:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BStrauss3 to your friends list
Given the obverse is in fact counterfeit, I would postulate it was created through the usual process, where a struck coin stuck to the die and a new planchet was introduced into the coining chamber. An error - deliberate or not we cannot say - of counterfeiting...


-----Burton
50+ year / Life / Emeritus ANA member (joined 12/1/1973)
Life member: Numismatics International, CONECA
Member: TNA, FtWCC, NETCC, EveryCountry (online) coin club
Owned by three cats and a wife of 40+ years (joined 1983)

Author: 3rd Edition of the Sample Slabs book, https://www.sampleslabs.info/
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 Posted 03/02/2015  12:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CaptainFwiffo to your friends list
It's hard to be that certain from the photos, they are not that clear.
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 Posted 03/02/2015  12:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list

Quote:
An error - deliberate or not we cannot say - of counterfeiting...


Yeah, that's a possibility which would explain all this. I'm just not seeing conclusive proof in the images that it's a counterfeit. If I take the visual data at face value, the date is wrong but I know too much about photography to trust what I'm seeing in the pics.
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 Posted 03/02/2015  1:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BStrauss3 to your friends list
Yet I can't come up with a scenario that would have a contemporary mint product with an incorrect 6.

The dies stamp a coin and it sticks to the reverse die - I can buy that, the 3CS are so light it wouldn't take much grease at all to happen.

But how does that 6 get hit to change it's shape AND the obverse die ALSO has the wrong 6?


Ah well, unless one of us bought it and sends it in and owns up to having bought it, we'll never know...
-----Burton
50+ year / Life / Emeritus ANA member (joined 12/1/1973)
Life member: Numismatics International, CONECA
Member: TNA, FtWCC, NETCC, EveryCountry (online) coin club
Owned by three cats and a wife of 40+ years (joined 1983)

Author: 3rd Edition of the Sample Slabs book, https://www.sampleslabs.info/
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 Posted 03/02/2015  1:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list
That's the thing, Burton. In my research, I saw enough 1863's with similar dates to be unsure it's wrong. Yes, this is almost certainly some sort of fake. 90% probability in my mind. I'm a risk taker, and that other 10% is absolutely enough for me to commit the money to this one.

http://coins.ha.com/itm/three-cent-...a/430-2444.s
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 Posted 03/02/2015  5:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add thq to your friends list
The sharpness and evenness are what bother me. What about making an obverse out of material hard enough to strike with? Turn out a carbide counterfeit specifically to strike the brockage into a softer counterfeit's reverse.
"Two minutes ago I would have sold my chances for a tired dime." Fred Astaire
Edited by thq
03/02/2015 5:57 pm
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 Posted 03/02/2015  6:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TypeCoin971793 to your friends list
The sellers other THREE 1863 Three Cent pieces:

Vice-Job-Or-Incredibly-Rare-Brockage?

Vice-Job-Or-Incredibly-Rare-Brockage?

Vice-Job-Or-Incredibly-Rare-Brockage?

Vice-Job-Or-Incredibly-Rare-Brockage?

Vice-Job-Or-Incredibly-Rare-Brockage?

Vice-Job-Or-Incredibly-Rare-Brockage?




Wow, the max image size DOUBLED! Thanks!
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 Posted 03/02/2015  6:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list
Prior sales from the seller? I don't log into ebay from my smartphone so I can't see their Feedback. These dates are much clearer, and dealbreakers. All I need to see.
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 Posted 03/02/2015  6:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TypeCoin971793 to your friends list
Edited by TypeCoin971793
03/02/2015 8:39 pm
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 Posted 03/02/2015  6:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list
Thanks, man. All we need to see. I officially renounce my interest in this coin.
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