Modern Fake Cap And Rays 8 Reales On Ebay

This is one of a multitude of accounts selling modern fakes that I, and also Bob, have tracked over the years. It may not be evident from the bad photos, but there have been many, many examples with various dates and mintmarks from the same accounts that have identical appearance and that same "ring of toning". Although the location is always listed in the US, the items are shipped from China with a US return address. The weigh is often a little bit off, but only by a couple tenths of a gram. (I've purchased coins from this distributor in the past, when they were going for low enough to not shell out genuine coin money for fake coins)
Also, Lucky Cuss, the dragon's teeth are all but useless in identifying modern fakes like these, as the details are generally correct.

They are high purity silver. There have been also lots of examples of common date Morgan dollars with the same exact appearance and toning ring. I have an ongoing thread keeping up with the many accounts from these distributors on another forum, unfortunately most of the older links are dead. More recently I have started stealing the sellers pics and posting them in addition to the ebay links.
There is big profit in many of the other coins they sell. Even when said coins sell extremely cheap compared to genuine examples. Currency trade manipulation by China means that selling a coin for even $5 above silver value (and then minus ebay and paypal fees) is still worthwhile. This is the same reason you can buy things from sellers in China and Hong for Kong for under $2 and with free shipping. US sellers could never profit on that, but due to the currency trade manipulation, these things are still profitable for them.

I believe colonialjohn is looking into doing a write up on coins like this with XRF results and all.

The most important thing in numismatics: Know your source!

I definitely have to get a copy of that 1878 Mo ML for study. Seeing the group it was with definitely is a clue to forgery - seeing it in isolation is another issue. I has all the correct traits.

Do you have one or more of these in hand?

Well, I have to commend Numismat for his diligence in ferreting these out. Without the demonstration of how these listings are all linked, my reaction to the single listing originally referred to would've stood - an innocuous, common specimen for which the red flags (zero feedback, poor photgraphy) probably don't deter a purchase so long as the price remained reasonable.

The fact that for this forger precious metal content is accepted as the price of conducting this nefarious trade, along with the sheer variety of types, is quite frightening. A very sophisticated operation that will be polluting the hobby for years to come.

From the standpoint of my little collecting niche of "Cap & Rays" 8 reales, I obviously would like to see large, detailed photos of various ones put out by this ring accompanied by as much physical data (weight, composition, dimensions) as possible.

Here is one more fake cap and rays from the same ring, unfortunately also already ended. Note the identical appearance despite different date and mint mark.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1884-Mexico...047675.l2557

Everything numismat has noticed and noted about this ring is correct. (numismat, I assume you recall the superperfect, Walmart, and similar IDs - which would be sort of laughable Chinglish if they weren't in fact mocking us with these fakes!! - and Queens, NY, Texas A&M town locations, etc...?). Bob, I privately discussed this group of sellers w/you probably a year and a half, two years ago (pointing out in particular these Cap & Ray pieces, which worried me b/c of how good they are). I recall you saying at the time to refrain from posting anything publicly, that you and the other ebay enforcers were aware of them and trying to take them down or whatever...

As numismat pointed out, they also have put out a similar chunk of fairly common date Morgans. As with the Cap & Rays, the frosty look of these "UNC" examples is rather convincing.

The same ring also offers, for all of your fake coin needs, the usual assortment of 1800s Germanic thaler-types, fake pillar 8R... and bust 8R with a plethora of chops on them (which that cowpie moron likes to buy from undoubtedly several different of these user IDs and then flip, feigning apparent ignorance as to their true origin). I've even seen a few oddballs like XF-level Draped lg cents with decent brown (artificial) "toning" (fitting in with the Bust halves numismat posted on the other forum thread).

These are the C&R dates I've observed and have pics of... I believe there are a few others (like 1883 Zs, an example of which I see suggested via one of the items linked above). Generally presented either blast white UNC, or UNC with that watery peripheral ring tone as noted:

1876 Cn
1878 Mo
1879 Go
1882 Mo
1884 Zs
1885 Zs
1888 Ca
1895 Mo

I think that discussion must have been before the committee was disbanded. After that time - I lost all ability to terminate any auctions. I really stopped tracking these interlinked groups.

Most traced back to the location (address) which also houses Not Allowed's main office in Peking (Beijing).