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 Replies: 18 / Views: 3,067 |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
1949 Posts |
Notwithstanding crack out... Let me play a bit of Devil's advocate here: Your shill 'y***y(9643)' Yes, 278 bids, 100% with seller Quote:
Total bids: 278
Items bid on: 29 'shill' has only bid on 29 different items That is certainly possible to have a buyer who bids an average of around 10 times on an item... There is one item that received 43 bids Could it be a shill? Possibly. Is it certain? Absolutely not. I'm sure many ebay sellers, myself included, have bidders who bid a rather high percentage with one seller... Shoot, I know for a time when I was just collecting, I made almost all of my purchases from one seller! |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1949 Posts |
Now to the issue of the crack out: Here is the verbatim description of the relisted coin: Quote:
A lovely example of the impossibly tough classic head large cent. This is also the challenging first year type VERY rare to find them this nice. This coin is a solid AU details pushing UNC. You have to try real hard to see any rub. Only minor porsoity and a few insignificant ticks and scratches. The porosity is enough to keep it out of a straight graded holder but it has a very marginal effect on the overall eye appeal. I'm sorry. but I have to strongly disagree with this statement: Quote:
he has cracked-out the coin and is selling it raw with no mention of the known environmental damage: While you may not agree with the seller's description, I think it is made quite clear that this is a problem coin. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1657 Posts |
The "shill" has 9400+ poss feedback.
And cracking out? If someone disagrees with opinion of the "pro" who spent 3 seconds grading a coin they've every right to discard the slab, in my opinion.
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Valued Member
260 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7375 Posts |
Quote:
The "shill" has 9400+ poss feedback.
And cracking out? If someone disagrees with opinion of the "pro" who spent 3 seconds grading a coin they've every right to discard the slab, in my opinion. I don't care how much feedback someone has. There are plenty of folks on ebay with big feedback numbers that shill bid and use shills when selling. If it looks like a duck, etc, it usually is. Anyone can make a mistake, but obvious shill situations are pretty easy to spot. Yeah, I've considered discarding a slab or two, but have never done it. But making a habit out of it, and then using shill bidders to run up the price is collusion. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
9792 Posts |
Pretty sure that is Sam of the Coin Show Radio, I have bought some coins from him off ebay all detailed but clearly stated and none were expensive nor slabbed. "Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013! ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2¢ variety collector. See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1304 Posts |
If someone has a problem with shills, then they have a problem with overpaying and not sticking to a budget. Shills are nothing more than a reserve price for the seller, even if it's illegal or immoral or against rules. My suggestion is to bid what you are willing to pay, and not go any higher. If you practice that, shills are meaningless. Of course, someone might be upset that they didn't win an auction super cheap because of shill bidders, but I'm not sure how much sympathy that will garner. Also, "shills" are common in other auction places where the house bids up items that are too low, or even buys them back because they didn't meet a consignors threshold. This is, again, like a reserve. So what exactly is the issue with shills? Because the only folks that are impacted are folks willing to overpay for everything or who are sad because they didn't get something super cheap. You want to not be taken in by a shill bidder, don't over bid. For shill bidding to work, someone has to play along that isn't a shill, stop playing along, stick to a budget.
As for the OP's coin linked. That's a nice coin. I could care less if it was cracked out to resell, the description states details and the details issues are fairly obvious. It's also copper, folks generally don't keep details copper in slabs, this is a super nice coin for an album at a discount because of the issues. Also, the original items images sucked. The cracked out images are superb. Again, if you can't recognize the problems this coin has, why are you bidding on it? From the new photos, it's blazingly obvious this coin won't straight grade.
Edited by EFLargeCents
08/26/2015 08:42 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3234 Posts |
Out of curiosity, how does the payment get settled with a shill bidder?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1211 Posts |
At what point does a coin forum stop being about coins and start being about petty nonsense. Good grief...
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
Quote:
At what point does a coin forum stop being about coins and start being about petty nonsense. Good grief... When established collectors like you stop caring. We cater to the people who are most at risk from shill bidding at Coin Community. Maybe you can pretend this isn't the biggest problem facing our hobby, but we don't have that luxury. For crying out loud, someone just asked in this thread what a "shill" was, and instead of helping with an answer all you got is negativity. Maybe you're not cut out for a teaching environment. Deodatus, a shill bidder is someone who is in collusion with the seller - or the seller himself - placing bids to artificially raise the price of the item. This is important for the seller because sometimes auctions don't get the attention they should, for whatever reason, and the psychological effect of a lot of bidding on a coin is even more bidding from those who aren't perfectly aware of the true value of the coin. The people Coin Community was founded to teach. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1304 Posts |
Quote:
the psychological effect of a lot of bidding on a coin is even more bidding from those who aren't perfectly aware of the true value of the coin This is very true, and is why those new to auctions in general should practice setting a budget and sticking to it. Carefully review the item, weigh it's pluses and minuses and then determine your best price. If you stick to that best price, you will succeed at auctions not just on ebay but elsewhere. It is extremely foolish to place bids simply because others are placing bids and this is exactly how shills win. It can also hurt you if you are bidding in an auction against a real person who wants the item "too much" and bids blindly. Remember for a lot of more common items, there are more than one, and there is no need to overbid. Try to fight the urge to "win at all costs". |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
Quote:
My suggestion is to bid what you are willing to pay, and not go any higher. If you practice that, shills are meaningless. And enter your max bid as a snipe bid. This frequently stops the shill from being able to run up the bid. |
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Rest in Peace
United States
2668 Posts |
 What Conder101 said. This is definitely about coins and the hobby.  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1304 Posts |
Also concur with Conder, snipe with max bid is a good strategy. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7375 Posts |
Sniping with max bid is the best strategy. Unfortunately there are a lot of average bidders that just bid up the coin during the auction. I'm not sure why they do it. It was clear to me after a minimum of experience that only bidding in the last few seconds is the best way to do it.  |
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Replies: 18 / Views: 3,067 |
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Posted 08/25/2015 9:50 pm
