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1984 Lincoln Memorial Cent DDO

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Pillar of the Community
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 Posted 01/15/2008  8:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add thingee to your friends list

Looks like a true doubled die to me- yet again I'm not an expert.

If that's Machine Doubling maybe I'll stick with collecting books!
Valued Member
United States
140 Posts
 Posted 01/15/2008  9:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MountainXBGL to your friends list
Most of you guys and gals know that I don't know my Lincoln from a hole in the ground.

To me that looks like an extreme case of Machine Doubling....I would think if it were a doubled die, with the seperation there you would definitely see split serifs and they may be there, but I don't see them from these pictures.
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 Posted 01/15/2008  9:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add foundinrolls to your friends list
Sorry but no die doubling on that coin.

There is one beside the doubled ear DDO that has distinct doubling on the lower right of the date and nice doubling across the entire bottom of the bust.

This one is not it.
This is a normal looking coin with a form of doubling that is often seen on plated cents. The plating moves a little over the surface of the coin causing a doubling effect. The easiest place to see that on your coin is in the area of WE TRUST.

Thanks,
Bill
Edited by foundinrolls
01/15/2008 9:57 pm
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 Posted 01/16/2008  06:18 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add j_h_s to your friends list
Bill, given the distance of doubling on the lower loop of the "8," if that is Machine Doubling, it is the most radical machine double I've seen.

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 Posted 01/16/2008  06:22 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add j_h_s to your friends list
Something(s) from the web:

http://koinpro.tripod.com/Articles/...Doubling.htm

http://coins.about.com/od/coinsglos...cal_doub.htm

Definition: Mechanical Doubling, also called Machine Doubling or Strike Doubling, a form of doubling which appears on a coin and is easily confused with doubled die strikes. On a true doubled die coin, the doubling comes from a mistake in the process used to make the coin die itself. In mechanical, or Machine Doubling, the doubled image results from mechanical issues during the striking of the coin, such as the coin shifting during striking, or the die itself being jarred out of position as a result of vibration or improper coin press maintenance. Mechanical, machine, and Strike Doubling are all considered by purists to be forms of damage, and are therefore not collectible as an error coin.
Valued Member
United States
140 Posts
 Posted 01/16/2008  10:11 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MountainXBGL to your friends list
If this is a doubled die, and I can't tell from the pics do to bluriness, in the first pic, you should clearly see notches where the devices seperate from one to the other, but rather it looks like a "slide" of the device which means Machine Doubling.
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142 Posts
 Posted 01/16/2008  11:45 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add honestabe to your friends list
I don't see any notching, but I don't think I can get a clear enough picture to see notching. What I do see when I hold the coin is two separate 8's and one of the 8's is on the inside of the main 8 and to the left of the main 8. The lines are raised on both 8's and there is separation of the 8's. The left 8 does not rise up as high as the main 8, but there is definitely a small separation (dark area) between the two. And on the left hand side there is definite separation. But if you hold the coin and look straight at it, the second 8 disappears mostly and you can only see a faint outline of that 8 to the side of the main 8. But if you tilt it to the right and look at it from 7:00, the two 8's are definitely separated. I think this is due to oxidation, somewhat. Also, the 4 is definitely doubled and so is the 9. The 4 that is underneath the main 4 is tilted. The 9's are very close to each other and there is a small area of separation, but not much. The 1 has a dark line running down it. And the LIBE of LIBERTY is slightly doubled with secondary letters to the left of the main letters, but only slightly(very hard to see for a novice like me).

1984-Lincoln-Memorial-Cent-DDO
Edited by honestabe
01/20/2008 08:41 am
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 Posted 01/16/2008  12:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Vaslin to your friends list
Thanks for the confirmation Bill. The plating is definitely showing some issues with the texture of the coin.
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 Posted 01/16/2008  2:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Vaslin to your friends list
:) And I definitely have no expertise either. I'd love for Copppercoins to comment or get some clear pictures.
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 Posted 01/16/2008  4:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add livingdinasaur to your friends list
I concur. The pictures aren't clear enough to get a definite view. My impression, from what I have seen in all the photos, and extra magnification, is a "possible", but not sure.
Dick
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 Posted 01/17/2008  10:29 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coppercoins to your friends list
Not a doubled die, and actually no doubling at all.

The lighting is playing tricks in the images.

The coin has a hump - a mound in the field around the 84 of the date, and there is a 'shadow' to the right of that area. This is caused by die wear and has nothing to do with doubling.
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 Posted 01/17/2008  2:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add KurtS to your friends list
honestabe, could you PM me? I have some ideas that I'd like to try with your photos.
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 Posted 01/17/2008  3:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add foundinrolls to your friends list
Some people just dont seem to understand Machine Doubling. Take a look at a coupla hundred Kennedy half dollars and you will see radical Machine Doubling.

You need to study what is and what isn't a doubled die. Once you get familiar with one or the other, you can easily pick out what you are looking at.

There will always be a few that are tricky to ID but those of us who have seen thousands of doubled dies and most of the known varieties and then have seen literally a million examples of Machine Doubling. don't have a problem telling the difference.

I am usually reluctant to be definitive when pictures could be better (on occasion) but even when the pictures aren't perfect, there is usually enough to go by so that an experienced eye can tell the difference.
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 Posted 01/17/2008  3:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add foundinrolls to your friends list
The pictures here show motion of the plating even in the blurry state that the pictures are in. I have seen them where the details look like they are doubled with a spread as wide as half of a number in the date. Look at doubled dies on Chuck's site or the few on my site. Once you've seen one in person, it is tough to confuse die doubling and Machine Doubling.
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 Posted 01/17/2008  3:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add KurtS to your friends list
Sigh...perhaps it's just a trick of the light, or the fact I'm not enough of a Lincoln specialist to tell the difference. Not that I'm an ignoramus regarding DDs, lol...I have cherrypicked a few already with poorer photos than these. Let the experts make the call...but I'd still like to see bigger/sharper pics, which would undoubtedly make it clear to me.
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