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Pillar of the Community
United States
4637 Posts |
ebay rules; Criteria for approved grading companies To be an approved grading service on ebay, the grading company must, at minimum, meet the following objective criteria: The service has graded at least 100,000 pieces of currency. The service provides a live, online & accurate population report of graded currency. At least one of the company principals should be a member of the Professional Numismatists Guild. There are at least 2 graders on staff who are considered currency experts within the trade. A currency expert is an individual who has worked as a full-time numismatist (with a specialty in currency) for at least 5 years. Both graders should be members in good standing of the American Numismatic Association ( ANA) and Professional Currency Dealer Association (PCDA). The service provides a written buyback guarantee for currency later determined to be counterfeit, damaged, repaired, misgraded, or misattributed (not inclusive of mechanical or typographical errors related to the holder itself). This guarantee must apply to ALL notes encapsulated under the brand name of the currency. Third-party-graded (certified) currency must be encased in a unique, tamper resistant holder with anti-counterfeiting measures (such as a hologram or other method). The service enables online verification of unique certification numbers. Recently I sent 10 CGA graded notes to PMG and all 10 crossed exactly as graded by CGA. Here are two examples.     Perception is everything in currency pricing, and right now PCGS and PMG are the big dogs. Their holders are bringing the higher prices at auction, and are trusted by most collectors.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4637 Posts |
I would like to also add..... @Coinfrog is correct, there are politics involved. Once CGA graded notes were banned at Heritage Auctions, and now at ebay, collectors took notice. CGA was the first TPG for paper currency and went through a scandal while owned by Jess Lipka. CGA was eventually sold to John Spinelli. John has worked hard to regain the trust (perception) of collectors. Turnaround times are much faster at CGA when compared to PMG or PCGS, and you do not pay membership fees to submit. If you send a CGA graded note to Heritage for auction, they will either cut it out and sell it raw, or send it to PMG or PCGS for grading. Some collectors prefer PMG or PCGS because of the registry, and the competition with other collectors. Edited to add; In a perfect world, where PMG, PCGS, CGA, and Superior were mutually respected and accepted at all auction venues, I would send my notes to CGA or Superior. Lower submission fees, no membership costs and much faster turnaround times. I am not interested in registry competition. Edited by SteveInTampa
04/12/2016 06:05 am
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts |
Some great input here, Steve, and I thank you for these great comparison pics. It is not a perfect world, unfortunately, but I fully agree with you.
If I am reading you correctly, you submitted your CGA notes to PMG for a cross in their original holders, and did not cut them - is this right?
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Valued Member
 262 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4637 Posts |
I send my notes in for grading in mylar holders, never in TPG holders. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts |
Got it, you sent them in raw (as I did). The word "cross" has a rather specific meaning in sending graded notes to a different TPG. Just confirming. |
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Valued Member
262 Posts |
Well that's good news then. So you sent the notes Raw and they were graded by PMG same as CGA! So, how long will it take for collectors to realize that CGA has stepped it up...
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4637 Posts |
Unfortunately it's not up to the average collector. It's up to the major currency dealers and major auction houses. Rehabbing a tainted brand takes time and trusted acceptance. You and I sending in our $100-$1,000 notes won't make a difference. It's the $10,000 + notes and the holders they reside in that will change the tides. We are lucky we belong to a forum without a TPG affiliation. Try bringing this subject up at Collectors Universe. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
742 Posts |
While it may seem like quibbling, CGA was not banned from ebay for anything CGA did. CGA does not meet ebay's requirements that were posted above by Steve. CGA is not the only TPG that does not meet the requirements. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts |
CGA notes can still be found often on ebay, sometimes even with a full view of the holder which has escaped the censor's eye. More often, sellers have learned to crop down to the easily-recognized border of a CGA note, after which a potential buyer can communicate via the "Contact Seller" feature to learn the holder grade and (depending on generation) the paper quality designation. Edited by Coinfrog
04/13/2016 8:41 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts |
Based on what I can see, I think it's unlikely that CGA will reach par with PMG and PCGS anytime in the near future. As most of you know, I have collected paper money for many years and have many hundreds of TPG notes. Among them are dozens and dozens of CGA notes that I have not cut and resubmitted, and perhaps never will. I bought them at a discount from comparably-graded PMG/PCGS notes for a simple reason: paper quality aside (which is difficult to ascertain with a holdered note), CGA centering standards were - and continue to be in the current generation - decidedly less conservative by a point or so as a general rule. A 66 OPQ GCA note will generally not exceed the centering norm for a 65 EPQ note from PMG or PPQ note from PCGS. Prices will reflect this, along with an extra butt-kick for the "inferior" CGA holder. These are generalities, of course. But until CGA makes yet again another design change and starts tightening their standards, they will not be taken seriously by the big players. Edited by Coinfrog
04/14/2016 7:38 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1285 Posts |
I have notes from many different TPGs;have NOT cut nor re-submitted notes from the "inferior" TPGs. Frankly my continuing advice to all who ask:
1. Learn to grade!
2. Buy the NOTE and not the holder
Above all: Enjoy your hobby and remember it's a hobby and not your life-blood. Dealers excepted.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4637 Posts |
I just got back a recent submission of large size notes to PMG. I purchased all of the notes raw, many years ago......except one. As mr.frog has mentioned earlier in this thread "CGA notes have always tended to grade one full point above PCGS or PMG notes of apparent similar quality, and occasionally slightly more." This had not been my experience until now. But to be fair, all of the notes I had cut out of the CGA holders were modern, uncirculated small-sized notes and they all came back from PMG in exact grades as CGA. As I nervously cut my series 1901 $10 Bison out of it's CGA holder, I noticed it seemed to have nice original paper qualities and good embossing, but more folds than a typical XF note would have. I like to test my grading skills by writing down my grade, while I have the note in hand before sending it in for grading. I graded this note as a 35EPQ. Well it's back now, and I will let you see the results.   Mr.frog, you were right as rain sir. Thankfully, I bought this note at VF money, and not XF money. Edited by SteveInTampa
06/22/2016 2:10 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts |
Steve - First of all, what a super note, regardless of the holder! My earlier comments about the "one grade point differential" between CGA and the two major TPGs was primarily in reference to Uncirculated notes - I have little experience with circulated GCA examples. Your experience suggests this relationship may well extend across the board.
As "tech" points out above, learn to grade first, and then evaluate/buy the note but not the holder!
As a general statement, at least for Uncirculated notes, I feel the market discounts CGA issues disproportionately to this "one grade point" differential. Since I have confidence in CGA's assessment of paper quality, this creates many resubmission opportunities.
Bruce
Edited by Coinfrog
06/22/2016 5:44 pm
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Posted 04/12/2016 05:55 am
