Ebay Seller Blackmail?

As with any widely used exchange venue ebay Attracts good and bad people. The Buyer has by far the most control and power of any transaction on ebay. This tends to be attractive to the less morally inclined amongst the general population. Scamers and the dishonest are always looking for ways to rip people off and ebay provides a good venue for both sides the buyers and the sellers. The feedback number does not count much for me its the content that counts. A good seller can have really bad feedback. All it takes is a vindictive buyer. If you actually read the feedback its not hard to determine whats going on. With the new rules the good sellers are going to suffer as they will not be able to address this kind of feedback. Lets take the Check (Cheque) example I go to a public Auction and Fill out a bid card. On the card it clearly states no personal checks. I bid on my fake tiffany lamp and win it. At the End of the auction I go to the cashiers desk and hand over a personal check. The Auction company get upset arguments ensue (Verbal Feedback is exchanged)and I up in cuffs and carted away by the boys in blue. This is a little extreme but I have seen close to this at live auctions. ebay should be no different. If the buyer is to bid on an item he needs to be aware of what he needs to do to complete the contract should he be successful. If all the contract details are not specified; Such as shipping or payment methods then he should walk away and not bid. This means that the seller has to be very specific in the auctions. The good ebay sellers are. The buyer has ultimate control on ebay. If I see a blurry coin picture I should walk away and look for a better one. There are people however who will look at the text of the auction and see 'Beautiful','high grade','Perfect' and bid. I have no sympathy for them as they doing nothing but gambling. The seller is playing on greed and the buyer is also. A good seller will have clear pictures a clear description and include all the needed contract information. Even then its up to the buyer to check everything and make sure they agree before entering into a contract. This will never really happen on ebay as its just to easy to look, click and save the worry for later.. Good Sellers have to work really hard to stand out on ebay Bad ones need do very little. EBays new feedback rules will not affect the bad sellers very much but the good will surely suffer. The buyer will no longer be able to judge is the negative feedback given to a seller was really warranted. Forgive my rambling but I feel very strongly that buyers should take responsibility for their actions when the click the button. They have far more protection than the sellers.

First of all, I want to clarify that we DO ACCEPT checks from established customers and CCF members. No one here was in violation of anything.

I have considered this issue from both sides and what it amounts to is that I can continue to list on ebay or not. Aside from the new feedback system, I don't want to pay the new fees. Also, I prefer to be able to offer better deals to our members here and I enjoy transacting business with all of you.

I am definitely leaning toward not listing on ebay any longer except for occasionally when I have an item that is high-priced and members of the forum have not shown an interest. I plan to offer all items to our members first. To me, that's the best way to go.

It is up to ebay how they run their venue. All we can do is decide whether we want to play by their rules or not. Personally, I'm not even upset about their changes any longer. We're working on setting up our CCF Numismatics site and I probably should have done this a long time ago anyway.

leebreeze - Contrary to your uninformed judgement of me, I do NOT leave retaliatory feedback. There have been a small handful of times when I've been given a negative for something that was my fault. For example, the mailing labels once got mixed up and two packages went to the wrong people. I emailed them as soon as I was aware of the mixup, I paid the return shipping to get the items to the correct people, and I apologized for the mistake and inconvenience. One of the two people involved left me positive feedback, indicating how well I handled an honest mistake. The other person left a negative. Although I never would have zapped a seller for an honest mistake that was fixed promptly, I didn't give him a retaliatory feedback. I gave him a positive, apologizing again for the mixup.

On the other hand, MOST negatives I've received are something like, "Took 12 days for item to get here from the time I paid." So I'll check my records, only to find that he paid on a Saturday, Monday was a holiday, and I shipped on Tuesday. The USPS took forever to deliver. In those instances, I return the negative. I did everything possible on my part and it's not up to the seller to attack my reputation for something that wasn't my fault. I state that I ship with 2 business days. I actually shipped his package within 1 business day. If the seller ruins my reputation over something that wasn't my fault, then I consider the entire ebay transaction to be a bad one, regardless of whether or not he paid me on time, and I'm going to warn other sellers that this is a buyer who has unrealisitic expectations of sellers.

Another example...

In December I sold a lot of brand new boy's Children's Place clothing. Photos of the items were posted. I received an email from the buyer indicating that she didn't like two of the pairs of pants in the listing. They were identical pairs of basketball pants in two different colors. They were the two least expensive items in the lot. She claimed that she thought they looked like they were made for girls, even though the tags clearly indicated that they were boys pants. I responded to her email indicating that they were tagged as boys pants and she saw the photos prior to bidding. I reminded her that the listing clearly indicated that I didn't accept returns, but I made an exception to my policy and offered a refund for both pairs of pants if she returned them to me. All of the items in the lot were tagged with retail prices, so I calculated an EXACT refund amount by applying the pro rata retail price percentage for the two pairs of pants to her total purchase price. It didn't amount to much, since the lot contained a heavy winter coat, nice jeans, etc. She responded that she didn't want a refund because it was still a great deal and she was using the pants she didn't like for angel tree kids. Next thing I know, she left negative feedback, stating that I mailed her pants that looked like they belonged on a girl. In my opinion, this buyer DESERVED a return negative feedback. It isn't retaliatory. I sold her exactly what she bid on, in the condition I said it would be, and I shipped it in a timely manner. She wasted my time answering her emails, turned down my generous offer for a refund, and tarnished my reputation for no reason. Other sellers deserve to know that about this buyer. The transaction was not a good one for me, despite the fact that the buyer paid in a timely manner.

Another example...

In December I was selling brand new men's Old Navy shirts. The color of the shirts was "Black Pearl," which was stated in the listings. Black Pearl is kind of a muted black, rather than a jet black. A photo of the shirt was provided in the listing and the color in the photo was accurate. I sold about 50 of these shirts and the feedback was all positive...except for one. One buyer (who never emailed me stating dissatisfaction) left me bad feedback, stating that I advertised a black shirt and the one she received is more like a dark gray/black. I emailed her and she told me that her husband still likes the shirt and wears it, but she was expecting it to be black because I didn't explain in the listing that "black pearl" meant that it wouldn't be jet black. She received a negative feedback from me. I did nothing wrong as a seller. She zapped me with a negative feedback without good reason and with no prior communication. Other sellers should know this about her. I was not satisfied with this transaction, despite the fact that the buyer paid in the timely manner, so the return of a negative was warranted.

I'll stop posting examples now. If you need more, just read my other threads. I've given more than a small handful of examples over the past few weeks.

People who sell a few items a week think they are "sellers" and know what sellers go through. As best I can tell, Bobby and Susan are the only people people on this board who sell in enough quantity to truly understand the crap that sellers put up with.

Hi Mahgobbi, One other point.

You stated in your first post that:
"...and no matter what you leave, you'll likely get a negative in return."

Can I ask you if you believe he should get a negative in return for leaving this seller a negative?

If your answer is "no" then you have to agree with what ebay are trying to do. Maybe just not the way they are doing it. In which case I ask you if you have an alternative solution.

If your answer is "yes" then you agree that it is ok to leave retaliatory feedback. Therefore there is not much point in discussing this further as that is what ebay is trying to stamp out and you don't agree with stamping it out.

Your second point is a good one, I had not thought of it like that. And makes another good argument for having 2 accounts, one to buy, one to sell, since you would not want to try and sell something with 49.2%

The thing is most of these buyers are occasional ebayers and are not sophisticated enough to have 2 accounts etc. They would just see it as their percentage has dropped and they are no longer a perfect buyer. Which most people try to be. It must be the case otherwise this would not be an issue to ebay in the first place.

I respect your knowledge and vast experience as a seller, however, ebay has a few thousand more feedback transactions than you to look at and must feel this is a huge issue to do something so drastic to the feedback system.

I don't agree with your first point though. Personally I only bother to trawl through someones feedback if they have a low percentage. At that point it does not matter if it was last week or a year ago, I still read all the negatives, without regard for when they were left. The number of bad compared to the number of good is the most important thing to me.

I think with the new regime we will soon get used to lower percentages and the cream, good sellers, will still rise to the top. They just might have 95% instead of 99.9% But they will still have better than the bad sellers with their 49%.

The other thing is if people do read that recent negative feedback and it says "Took 12 days to get my goods" well personally I wouldn't let that put me off. If lots of people were saying it, then I might.

I think it's run it's course also, we could bicker back and forth forever because there's very valid arguments on both sides. I'm going to lock it up tonight around 9, so get in any last comments you may have.

quote:

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...a buyers thoughts are just as valid as a sellers

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You don't say? What a concept! That's better than hearing I haven't a clue!

I have no intention in casting aspersions towards anyone. Both buyers and sellers need to be aware of their particular concerns to ensure a positive transaction. I think this hinges on making the expectations of a transaction as clear as possible. Buyers should know clearly what's expected of them, and certainly sellers can provide ample product and payment details to nip conflicts in the bud. After all, I don't believe most buyers or sellers want to have a troublesome transaction If either party appears to have the upper hand, it may create a desire to "outsmart" the other party in the transaction.

Present company excluded, I think quite a few coin sellers on ebay can do better to reduce possible transaction conflicts. On an average day, I scan hundreds of coin auctions and note there's a high incidence of misleading and/or poorly documented items: dark, blurry photos, overgrading, unrealistic valuations, cleaned coins sold as "BU", and other problems that only surface when the coin is delivered. Suffice to say, these sellers are just asking for trouble by being lazy, greedy or indifferent to the buyer. They should be rated accordingly, but sadly I don't see that reflected in their score...why?

On the other end, how many coin sellers on ebay try to push the boundaries of product disclosure and good business ethics? Outside of waiting for that positive rating, do most sellers ask buyers for their experience? I think many would be enlightened by more candid feedback. Ultimately, I think sellers have the opportunity to set the tone for their products and draw buyers into transactions that instill trust, despite whatever imperfections linger with ebay. It's been my experience that people who practice good business ethics encourage their business contacts to reciprocate in kind.