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1973-D LMC What Would The Filled Top Of Bay 2 Be Called?

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Pillar of the Community
United States
3332 Posts
 Posted 12/02/2016  09:56 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Pete2226 to your friends list

Quote:
It is more of just knowing what caused the issue is the satisfaction from finding these.

I agree - that is what I enjoy!

However, it seems that there are times when there is a premium! See this link:

http://www.ebay.com/sch/Coins-Paper...045573.m1684
Pillar of the Community
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 Posted 12/16/2016  3:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Pete2226 to your friends list
I discovered today that this is not a die clash. It is a die subsidence error!


Quote:
Die subsidence (sunken die) errors are usually one-off events. In other words, the error will only affect one die. When die subsidence errors affect several dies, it's usually the periphery of the die face. This makes sense as differences in hardness would be expected to develop during flawed heat treatment (annealing, tempering, quenching). These processes cool or heat up a die from the outside in, and circular or semicircular zones of weakness can develop in the case of heat-treatment that is too rapid, too slow, or that is interrupted in some fashion.

The real mystery arises when you end up with highly localized, repetitive die subsidence errors in the same location well within the die face.

The most widespread epidemic of repeated interior die subsidence errors occurs among 1973-D cent. Only the reverse die is affected and at least 8 dies are represented. The defect is always found on the left side of the Lincoln Memorial, between columns 1 - 3. The outline and height of the zone of subsidence is slightly different from die to die, but the location is quite consistent. Why only the reverse die is affected, and why the abnormally soft patch of steel is restricted to this area, is a profound mystery. These defects are often mistaken for clash marks.http://www.error-ref.com/?s=die+subsidence
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 Posted 12/16/2016  4:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list
Pete you da man. I once collected the 1973-D in something like 14 different stages but freed them a few years ago thinking it was stages of a die clash.
John 1
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 Posted 12/16/2016  4:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Pete2226 to your friends list

Quote:
I once collected the 1973-D in something like 14 different stages but freed them a few years ago thinking it was stages of a die clash


I can never make my self do that! I was noticing, today, some of the things I have kept in the collection. They shouldn't be there!
Bedrock of the Community
United States
62064 Posts
 Posted 12/16/2016  10:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list
On the three images of the 1973-D coins, you can see a line direction NE on the cornice. I'm not seeing that on this coin. To me it still looks like die abrasion to me.
http://www.error-ref.com/?s=die+subsidence
Note the third example. It show that the strongest. The other two images are showing it lesser.
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 Posted 12/16/2016  11:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dustin6 to your friends list
Odd. I would like this to be a die subsidence, but I'm not sure yet.
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 Posted 12/17/2016  09:26 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mikediamond to your friends list
This is indeed one of the dies affected by a recurring die subsidence error.

http://www.coinworld.com/news/us-co...or.all.html#
Error coin writer and researcher.
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 Posted 12/17/2016  09:28 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dustin6 to your friends list
Thanks for the info Mike!! Great catch Pete!! Mike, any idea on how much these are worth?
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 Posted 12/17/2016  09:36 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Pete2226 to your friends list
Thankk you, Mike Diamond!

Bedrock of the Community
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 Posted 12/17/2016  09:57 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list
To me it seems that the theory of the steel being the issue for the dies seems odd because what are the chances of the same area being affected on the dies. Seem like the metal would have to be lined up exactly the same in order for this to happen on the same area? It would seem to be more logical that it could of happened on a hub. The transferring the weakness to the die as the hub was sinking. Thus creating the different dies with the sinking issue. The location of the issue is what seems unlikely to me. To be on the exact area of the rod, they would have to been lined up on the die. (unless I'm missing something here?)
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 Posted 12/17/2016  10:43 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mikediamond to your friends list
The mechanism remains a puzzle. But there are precedents, as mentioned in my article. As to value, they're not worth very much.
Error coin writer and researcher.
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 Posted 12/18/2016  10:51 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Pete2226 to your friends list

Quote:
As to value, they're not worth very much.


I think that the real value to me is the "crusade" to find what an anomaly is and how it came to be the way it is. Searching and research are challenging and fun, I think. Thanks again, Mike, for your help!

Bedrock of the Community
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62064 Posts
 Posted 12/18/2016  6:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list
Here are a few I found on PCGS Coinfacts site:
1973-D-LMC-What-Would-The-Filled-Top-Of-Bay-2-Be-Called?
1973-D-LMC-What-Would-The-Filled-Top-Of-Bay-2-Be-Called?
1973-D-LMC-What-Would-The-Filled-Top-Of-Bay-2-Be-Called?
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 Posted 12/19/2016  05:05 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Pete2226 to your friends list
Coop - GREAT JOB on pulling those together! WOW!

Thanks for the site reference - very useful...I had not found it yet!

Your numbers in black in the lower left hand corner of each image:
Just guessing that they each represent a different die?
The number after the decimal represents a different die stage?
Bedrock of the Community
United States
62064 Posts
 Posted 12/19/2016  11:54 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list
No, those are the address number for the full shot of both sides of the coin. So if someone wanted to see a certain one, then I can go back and pull up the full images from my files.
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