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Pillar of the Community
United States
5964 Posts |
The guilt lies with the person that named it. It's human nature to resist change, people get comfortable with what they're used to. It'll take time, but PSD is catching on, one day people will have never heard of PMD. Edited by CoinMasters
12/23/2016 4:51 pm
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
3331 Posts |
By the way, I just found the reference to the author of the definition of PSD in the glossary (Dustin). Here is what he says: Quote: It can now be used by the new collectors to get a better grip on damage that happened after it left the mint. PSD is in! http://goccf.com/t/274203#274203 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5964 Posts |
An excerpt from your link: Quote:PSD and PMD mean the same thing. PSD came about because the name PMD is misleading. The name sounds like it's referring to damage that had to occur after the coin left the mint. Dustin if you reread that other post, you'll see I was the one that recommended putting it in the glossary. When you get your check half is mine. lol Now a new definition is in order, because circulation begins at the mint. Where's that author now? |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
62064 Posts |
I put up a link on the Classic forum about knowing more about the U.S. mint. Here is the link: http://goccf.com/t/276387I feel both forums would enjoy this. But I posted it there first. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3331 Posts |
Great info, Coop - thanks!
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5964 Posts |
Edit: The definition of circulation. Quote:
Circulation: A term applied to coins that have been spent in commerce and have received wear. Is that really a term we apply to coins?  I understand the intent, but I don't think every coin that has wear had to be spent in commerce first. Edited by CoinMasters
12/24/2016 12:58 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3516 Posts |
Just read everything over. Thanks Jim!!  I would also like to know who took my defenition away!!  Just kidding. But we are definitely on to something here. I'd like to see Mike and Coop and Jim and Conder and Pete and everyone who wants to make an input make one, and then we can edit it and make the new defenition. This thread is great and I subbed to it.I think that circulation would start at the mint. Even though it hasn't touched the general populations hands yet. It is still touching other coins and the conveyer and everything. Not even adding in all the things it touches on the way to the banks in the bags and the rolls and everything. A few coins could probably become AU by the time they get to the bank. And after the bank, the bank worker has to touch them to get them in the rolling machine. I honestly think circulation begins right after the coin is struck. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2775 Posts |
Has anyone found the official definition of circulation as described by the US Mint(s) or U.S. Department of the Treasury? I think any definitions (new or old) should coincide or be referenced with their definitions.
If the mint or treasury has ordered a job run that struck up 500,000 quarters and decides to scrap the whole batch for what ever reason, before leaving the mint. Would they be considered circulated? Thanks, Doug.
Edited by Halo1st
12/23/2016 11:28 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3331 Posts |
If you study the way the word "circulation" is actually used in various descriptions (Google: "coin circulation definition by us mint"), it clearly refers to the definition given in CCF Glossary. This definition is clear and intuitive. I am not convinced that it should be changed - and even if it is changed, I think that the way the word is actually used by folks will not be affected. Maybe this is a   |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5964 Posts |
 for the most part Pete, I have come to believe the jest of the definition is sound. I guess I was just looking at it in a different way. I enjoyed it, now I'm going to go check some of my circulation nickels. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3331 Posts |
Quote:
I guess I was just looking at it in a different way. In my opinion it is a good thing to view an idea from different perspectives. I think the issue lies with the distinction in the difference between PMD and PSD. I did not know, until this discussion, that folks wanted PMD to go out of style and substitute PSD instead. I don't think it is working! So, to me the logical approach is to define PMD as damage which happens after the coin leaves the mint, and PSD as damage after the strike and before the coin leaves the mint. (This definition of PSD may be impractical - how can when damage occured be determined?) I think those are clear and intuitive definitions! (Others might disagree)! I think the definition of "circulation" is fine. It is clear and intuitive. Trying to force a change to it would be counter productive. Just think about the way a definition of a word is formed: I think that the primary way the definition of a word is formed is by the way it is used. The meaning of the word may be inferred from the context in which it is used. The most extreme and difficult form of this is the case of a hapax legomena (the only place and time a certain word has ever been used). Since there are no other uses of the word in existence, the meaning of the word must be determined from the context. This occurs most frequently in ancient texts (whether it be a Mayan Codex, the Oxyrhynchus Papyri, or Ugaritic Texts). However, Editors of modern dictionaries also study the context of the usage of words to determine their meaning and to decide when it is appropriate to include the word in their dictionary. By consulting an Unabridged Dictionary, it is possible to observe how the meaning of a word has changed over time. Will changing the definition of a word in a Glossary actually have any significant influence over the way it is used? I am skeptical - especially if the new definition is counter-intuitive! If the new definition is intuitive and clear, then I think it is likely to be adopted in practice. Edited by Pete2226
12/24/2016 11:59 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5964 Posts |
PMD has already been defined for many years now. It is used everywhere. It was easier to institute PSD than change PMD. That makes CCF cutting edge - leading the world in innovation. It is catching on, but when you factor all the places PMD is used, it will take many years. When damage occurred, is determined for PSD the same as it is for PMD, there is no difference. I said I had come to think the jest of the definition of circulation was sound. I had previously been thinking of it as wear on the coin, which by the way, I still believe can occur before a coin is spent in commerce. I have enjoyed talking with you Pete, I hope the 1000 readers enjoyed it. We'll do another sometime and I'll try to view it in the proper perspective.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2775 Posts |
Quote:
I had previously been thinking of it as wear on the coin, which by the way, I still believe can occur before a coin is spent in commerce. Think I have a basic understanding of the mint having to move its product around within the mints facilities. The product (coin) contact is a given. Uncertain if the mint plays with its product before distribution. One off the wall possibility. Poker Night at the Mint!, with no limit Hold-em. Sorry you can't leave with your winnings as you'll be stripped search and run through the metal detectors on the way out. The coins would be placed back in bins to be used in commerce. Thanks, Doug. Edited by Halo1st
12/24/2016 3:42 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3331 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5964 Posts |
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Replies: 61 / Views: 8,555 |
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Posted 12/23/2016 5:04 pm
