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 Replies: 21 / Views: 7,048 |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
62064 Posts |
Note that the lines are not on all the obverse? Just there areas where the original finish is missing.   Edited by coop
02/01/2017 2:34 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3463 Posts |
Similar to what Mike said, maybe the rollers or some other part at the mint, left a residue on the coin's surface that affects the metal and later shows up as these lines.
Similar to when a plumber solders Copper pipes together and doesn't rinse all of the flux away. The areas where the flux are corrode very quickly, while the areas next to them don't.
It may be some type of oil or lubricant. It would be interesting to do an experiment with some oil on a Copper cent to see what affect it has over time.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2563 Posts |
 with Coop. The adhesive blocks out the luster |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5964 Posts |
In my opinion Slamnbass' cent is the "wider and more variable in width" variety, an improper alloy mix. Here's a pic Mike posted showing a narrow striped clad coin possibly from rollers.  Time moves forward and memory moves back. Edited by CoinMasters
02/01/2017 9:59 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
62064 Posts |
Is the dime missing the clad?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3656 Posts |
That is really different looking, looks like someone painted the woodie effect on it to. I think it is a great find to see it all in one like that. Super Cool :)
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5964 Posts |
No it's not Coop. It's discolored, a phenomenon on many of the clad Woodys. It's thought to be caused by heat from the annealing oven and under the rollers acting on the lines embedded in the planchets possibly from the rollers. lol It's all a "best guess". It's not known for sure what causes the modern Woodys. It's only a theory that it's roller marks. Cladding can be improperly mixed too. The real question is about the wide and the narrow stripes. Here's a quote from Mike's article: Quote:
conventional improper alloy mix errors are wider and more variable in width. You also never see any lamination errors (cracking, peeling, flaking) in the narrowly striped cents. I believe he's eluding to a theory of wide and variable width stripes being caused by an improper alloy mix and the narrow stripes caused by rollers and heat. As long as we're tossing theories around, here's mine. The improper alloy mix can be caused by an improper combination of elements or an insufficient amount of mixing them. Therefore I think another strong possibility is an under mixed alloy. Anyone that's ever mixed a can of paint knows the swirls (stripes) start out wide, and then get narrower as it gets closer to being fully mixed. I think stripes, especially on alloyed coins are from insufficiently mixed alloys. The narrower striped ones don't crack, peel, and flake because they are better mixed. Mike and I discussed this about a year after the article in Coin World was published and neither theory was ruled out. That article is dated 30 Sept 2014, he has revised his thinking on the possible cause of the possible roller marks since then. It is pretty much as I have stated here-in. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5964 Posts |
One other thing, and then I'm signing off. If you look at a small part of a large circle, it appears straight. A small cent is not very big, and hardly a gauge as to whether the lines are perfectly straight or curved. Roller marks (if they exist) would have to be straight and even. Slamnbass' cent is wide with variable widths and swirled. lol I think everyone that sees it should agree it's one pretty penny.  |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
62064 Posts |
So to us, (Mike and Me) they are not a planchet issue from a poorly mixed base metal. If is more of a production issue, not an improper mix issue. The differences are quite different in our eyes.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5964 Posts |
I can respect that Coop. You both always have my highest respect. I agree with your opinions 100 percent when they are based on known facts. I can't help but disagree sometimes when they are based on a theory. Theories and opinions go hand in hand. This is the place for opinions, I know because CCF thanks me for my participation every time I sign on. lol Seriously though, when you post a picture that say's "planchet roller marks" I think it should say "possible planchet roller marks". Also, the article you posted is outdated as to Mike's suspected cause of the suspected roller marks. Here's an excerpt from his and my conversation. Quote:
I now suspect that brown and gray-colored stripies found in nickels and clad coins are the result of both rolling and improper annealing. I suspect that the elevated temperatures of the annealing oven somehow bring out the striped pattern that is already latent in the surface metal. This conjecture would explain the greater-than-random association of stripes with discoloration and the uniform discoloration of the coins' edges. I don't mean to go against the grain, it's just that I disagree with the theory. You both have my highest regards. This is the last I have to say on the matter. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
62064 Posts |
Email me the link to that location and I'll create a new image for that.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5964 Posts |
Coop,I never gave this link because when it was made I knew considerably less about our hobby than the little I know now, and it makes me look like an idiot. I also didn't post it because I don't like helping to promote things I don't believe in. I saw your question coming, (asking for the link) that's why I said, "This is the last I have to say on the matter." I was off the hook, but after further consideration, I owe you and many of the other readers better than that. There is a lot of good information in it. Here you go. http://goccf.com/t/239497I hope you will also amend the "planchet roller marks" in the pictures you make as that is incorrect too. You and Mike are the experts, so I think "probable roller marks" or "thought to be roller marks" or something like that would be correct. Thanks, Jim |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5964 Posts |
It might be a good idea to lock the old post? The one I just provided a link for.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5964 Posts |
Oops. Sorry, I goofed. Now I know why you wanted me to email the link.
Edited by CoinMasters
02/03/2017 02:13 am
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
891 Posts |
Thanks CM. That link was a real good read
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Posted 02/01/2017 6:10 pm
