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1991 P Roosevelt Dime - Retained Cud - 01R

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 Posted 03/05/2017  8:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list
I think this might be solder on the coin. If this were a Cud, then the opposite side would be weak. I'm not seeing that on this coin.
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 Posted 03/05/2017  8:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinMasters to your friends list
A Retained Cud shows normal inside it, while a regular Cud is just a blob.
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 Posted 03/05/2017  9:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Druu to your friends list
A Cud occurs when a piece of the die chips off. Before it fully chips off, it lives as a die crack. When the crack gets deep enough, it breaks off. A coin struck after the chip will have a blob of metal - this is a Cud. A Retained Cud is before the chip, and shows up as a die crack that originates and ends at a rim. It can be a small crack (as is the case here), or it could be a crack that busts off nearly half the die (an example of this can be seen as the home page of Cuds on Coins).
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 Posted 03/05/2017  10:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinCollector2000 to your friends list
I actually have to disagree with Coop on this one. Looks exactly like the 01R on cuds-on-coins.

http://cuds-on-coins.com/roosevelt-...970-present/
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 Posted 03/06/2017  02:45 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinMasters to your friends list
If that's the case, maybe it was a strong strike because it shows no weakness on the other side. Just guessing.
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 Posted 03/06/2017  03:06 am  Show Profile   Check spru's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add spru to your friends list
Thanks for the link CC2000. It does look almost exactly like that. The C-o-C example shows obverse weakness in the lower legs of the 9's (especially the second) and the OP's coin shows some weakness in the second 9. I think it's a Cud.
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 Posted 03/06/2017  04:41 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list
So would it be safe for me to say that a Retained Cud is the same as what I call a pre-cud die crack or a pre-cud die break?
John1
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 Posted 03/06/2017  11:47 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinMasters to your friends list
John1, a Cud is only a Cud if it's a die break. If a Cud is not retained it's only a blob. If a Cud is retained, some experts insist on either vertical or horizontal metal displacement as proof of a break, otherwise it's a rim to rim crack (possibly pre-cud, but only if it was determined to actually break later on). The OP's coin looks to me like a Cud.
Edited by CoinMasters
03/06/2017 8:18 pm
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 Posted 03/06/2017  5:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list
Rim Cuds don't flow over the area of the field is. This coin has over that field/devices.
Edited by coop
03/06/2017 5:11 pm
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 Posted 03/06/2017  6:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Cujohn to your friends list
John1, I like the term pre Cud. Describes it better than retained. You have to think about it backwards, Retained Cud is a Cud that's not a Cud yet because the piece of the die hasn't fallen out yet, oh man I think I just hurt my brain.
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 Posted 03/06/2017  6:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ter215 to your friends list
hi everyone, just wanted to show a pic of the edge , doesn't look soldered, matches CoC o1R ....thanks for the replies....

1991-P-Roosevelt-Dime---Retained-Cud---01R
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 Posted 03/07/2017  04:54 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list
Nice pics ter215,what are you using?
John1
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 Posted 03/07/2017  5:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ter215 to your friends list
hi john, thanks....i was using a zorb microscope but it quit working on me so I thought i'd use my canon powershot a470 , it works very well but not to good at very close up shots....thanks again brother...
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 Posted 03/13/2017  12:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add slickbb6 to your friends list
This is not a Retained Cud, as it can only be a Retained Cud if there is something being "retained", this only happens in rare and brief instances. This is because Retained Cuds aren't " Cuds"... yet. Like John said, a better name for a Retained Cud would be precud...but post (after) that rim to rim die crack finally graduates from being just a crack, into full separation (or a complete split) into a free floating piece of die. Still with me? Lol

Ok so now you got 2 separate pieces of die making coins.. aka Retained Cud phase. This is a very short lived phase as its only a short matter of time in how long the smaller piece can stay in place, or keeps in line with the rest of the design while punching coins.. and this can vary, but once it does start to move/rotate away from its original location, its piece of the design will still be visible but will show some sort of CLEAR evidence (either being sunken down lower than the rest of the surrounding area of where it broke away from the die, or maybe it looks like the last piece of a puzzle that someone didn't put in quite right or had pushed all the way in. But as soon as that broken piece of die and it's portion of desgin cannot be seen or shows no evidence of still floating around in its spot anymore, then you have entered the Cud phase. And we all know that this is when that missing piece of die is not coming back and leaves a nice empty void, which translate to big protruding blobs of metal on the surface of the coins it makes until a mint worker notices and replaces the die with a new one.

Cud vs Retained Cud..
Basically I think we all can agree that we think of Cuds as just big old blobs of metal filling in a void that was left along the rim of a damaged die face.

Retained Cud - basically before a Cud can exsist, it had to be a Retained Cud first. The only real way to tell the two apart is to think of it like this. Cud and Retained Cud are the same person (same type of error) in that they represent the same area of a die that just fully broke.. and as long as that piece is able to hang in there and float around without being destroyed or falling out, then you have a Retained Cud.. until it gets destroyed/flys out/it wont last very long in this state for obvious reasons.. and that is why its much more rare than a Cud, or even rim to rim die cracks, etc.. once it becomes a Cud, it can stay a Cud for as long as they continue to use that die (and not notice the damaged die) which could be the same day, or maybe not for several days..

But this guy is no Retained Cud by the actual definition of a " Retained Cud". Many people mislabel and confuse this term, and it's not uncommon to have incorrectly identified errors on websites that list these. But you do have a nice cute little reverse Cud on that dime!
Edited by slickbb6
03/13/2017 12:17 pm
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 Posted 03/13/2017  12:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add slickbb6 to your friends list
This is a real Retained Cud for reference.

http://goccf.com/t/282204#2397917

1991-P-Roosevelt-Dime---Retained-Cud---01R
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