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 Replies: 17 / Views: 5,643 |
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
Rotate it under a light. Some toning can be thick/dark enough to obscure it but generally you can still see the luster.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1660 Posts |
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Rest in Peace
United States
17900 Posts |
Think of an early copper coin, say 200 years old. There are very few that still retain their original red coloration. Even finding one with part of the red remaining is rare. Most of those coins, even uncirculated examples, will show none of that original red. Does that mean that those examples that are purely Brown can't be mint state? Of course not. The same is true for other metallic compositions. Neither luster nor strike affects technical grading, although it certainly effects eye appeal and value. Think of all the coins that have post numeric strike applications. Mercury dimes and FSB, Franklin halves with FBL, Standing Liberty and full head, etc. If strike were considered in the numeric grade you wouldn't need all of those other strike designations. Technical grading should always be considered first with market value as an additional consideration. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2495 Posts |
I once saw a very old, original coin collection.
Quite a few of the coins were Canadian quarters, circa 1909 to 1936, all being high grade MS coins.
These were never dipped and original and I bet very few collectors have seen such a coin, because their appearance was of a very rare nature.
The coins were almost black, due to the many years of exposure to the air, BUT....the coins had absolutely booming luster, a combination rarely, if ever seen.
It just goes to show you that most older coins, either white or toned, have been played with in some fashion. (dipped and AT'ed).
Edited by doubleeagle59
10/17/2017 8:22 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
3234 Posts |
Here are 2 examples of dark toning ..and hopefully "great toning"..with luster. A 1911 50 cent in an older ICCS SP 66 holder and a nice 1935 business strike dollar.. If properly held to the light, the toning (and luster) are easily seen.     . Edited by DEVLEC
10/17/2017 6:25 pm
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Rest in Peace
United States
17900 Posts |
Fantastic examples Devlac. Great photos, too.
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Valued Member
 Canada
148 Posts |
Thanks Develec those are similar to what I was referring to, we know the luster is there but it's hiding behind toning.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5324 Posts |
So that means any copper cents that are graded brown has hidden luster ? and the same reasoning for high grade silver coins
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2495 Posts |
john100.............No, it does not.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
3234 Posts |
Quote:
So that means any copper cents that are graded brown has hidden luster ? "any copper cent" Don't place all in the same basket.. Each coin, be it copper or silver, will have very different attributes when toned..and must be graded on their own merits. |
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Valued Member
Canada
148 Posts |
Sorry Devlec seems like a hard name to spell  . Most of the grading research I've read over the years, for example Charlton 2014 has a large section on grading points for all monarchs and at MS 63 and above over and over again they highlight strong or exceptional strike and full mint lustre. Strong strike I've come to understand and quantify in my mind, but full mint lustre under toning I struggle with. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5324 Posts |
The point I was trying to understand is that if this logic was used, all MS coins will have hidden luster under the toning correct
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
955 Posts |
Aaahhhh ! Good point John100. I really don't know the answer but I'll assume no. I think Devlec said it best. On each coins merits. MS62 Brown for example. Please correct me if wrong.
Edited by Canacoins
10/18/2017 8:18 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
822 Posts |
Every coin different. If it's not completely black for silver, or a heavy brown for copper, there certainly could be lustre showing. Think about an old tea service from the 1800's. If it's found in an attic, it will be black as can be and won't have any shine unless polished. Same for a coin; there's a point where the tarnish will eventually ruin any lustre if it goes completely black long enough, like the coin here. I don't think it would have any hidden lustre left. (not my coin)  |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2495 Posts |
I agree, based on that picture, there's zero lustre underneath that toning and dipping that coin would be a big mistake.
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Replies: 17 / Views: 5,643 |
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Posted 10/17/2017 3:19 pm
