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1909 Lincoln Cent - Lam Err?

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Bedrock of the Community
United States
62064 Posts
 Posted 04/27/2018  4:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list
It kind of looks like a struck through? (Weak one) it might have worn down a bit from circulation.
Pillar of the Community
United States
3669 Posts
 Posted 04/28/2018  1:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fortcollins to your friends list
I find this area of your coin interesting:

1909-Lincoln-Cent---Lam-Err?

Whatever is directly beneath the "S" of "TRUST" is extremely linear, and it is bisected by the curve. To me, that suggests at least two different things are going on with this coin. Regarding the lower curve, I'm with Crazyb0 and coop, either it is struck through or was post-mint impact. This curve appears to cross the rim on both ends, and this is particularly evident below Lincoln's shoulder.

Regarding the linear shape below "TRUST," my hunch is an alloy issue, if there isn't a blob of glue on the surface. Pre-1917 Lincolns frequently have some weird chunks of improperly alloyed metal embedded in the coin, typically appearing as "L" shapes or miniature bars of metal. (IIRC, the mint changed contractors in mid-1916 for the raw copper used for cents.)

The outer curve is harder to pin down. Again, if it isn't a blob of glue, there are several possibilities: improper annealing, post-mint exposure to heat, or metal flow during striking if the inner circle is struck through are a few that come to mind. On this second circle, there does appear to be a crack in the surface above Lincoln's head.

Is there any way to see a photo of the reverse and a photo of the edge of the coin from about 9:00 to 1:00 (Liberty to Trust)?
Bedrock of the Community
United States
62064 Posts
 Posted 04/28/2018  2:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list
If it is a struck through it should be incuse on the fields and dev. If it is an alloy issue then the fields and devices should be norm, without disturbance. From the images the furthest west area looks incuse? The mark that is over the head looks like a left a stain laying over the coin. You could compare it carefully with another coin? If so, that would be a stain and not incuse across the coin. That is what I'm seeing in your images.
Edited by coop
04/28/2018 2:08 pm
New Member
United States
40 Posts
 Posted 05/01/2018  10:47 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bamasoe to your friends list
Well after a 36 hour acetone bath, the front looks essentially the same, no glue.

coop/fortcollins I will work on some closeups when I get home this eve, thanks for your help everyone!
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United States
8715 Posts
 Posted 05/01/2018  10:54 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SilverDollar2017 to your friends list
An interesting coin. Close up pictures of the areas in question would help. Here's my opinion:


  • The circular line that goes through the R in LIBERTY and Lincoln's head looks like PMD to me.

  • The jagged line could be many things. Close up photos will definitely help. It could a strikethrough, a planchet flaw, or post mint heat damage.



Will wait for close up pictures.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
62064 Posts
 Posted 05/01/2018  1:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list
I would like to see a close up of the first part of the motto areas devices. (the affected areas) I can't tell if the field is peeled on IN GOD or if the coin is damaged on the area where the rim area from another coin pressed down or not? That is what I'm seeing now. It looks incuse from a hit from another coin over the face area?
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United States
2624 Posts
 Posted 05/01/2018  7:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DrDon to your friends list
The one thing I am sure of is this is not lamination.
The lower line is a clean arc. I am not sure if it matches the curve of the rim.
I have no idea on the upper line.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts
 Posted 05/01/2018  8:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list
The lower line must be some sort of PMD. Lots of fish on the line here, good mystery.



to the CCF!
New Member
United States
40 Posts
 Posted 05/02/2018  4:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bamasoe to your friends list
Ok, gave it my best shot. tried every angle/lighting I could think of. I need a professional setup...


1909-Lincoln-Cent---Lam-Err?
1909-Lincoln-Cent---Lam-Err?
1909-Lincoln-Cent---Lam-Err?
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1909-Lincoln-Cent---Lam-Err?
1909-Lincoln-Cent---Lam-Err?
1909-Lincoln-Cent---Lam-Err?
1909-Lincoln-Cent---Lam-Err?
1909-Lincoln-Cent---Lam-Err?
1909-Lincoln-Cent---Lam-Err?
1909-Lincoln-Cent---Lam-Err?
1909-Lincoln-Cent---Lam-Err?
1909-Lincoln-Cent---Lam-Err?
1909-Lincoln-Cent---Lam-Err?
1909-Lincoln-Cent---Lam-Err?
Pillar of the Community
United States
575 Posts
 Posted 05/02/2018  5:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CJ18850 to your friends list
Waiting for everyone's conclusion on this.

Bedrock of the Community
United States
62064 Posts
 Posted 05/02/2018  8:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list
Still seeing a struck through wire issue. But the one that looks like a coin arc, still not sure on what that is. It might be damage or corrosion.
New Member
United States
40 Posts
 Posted 05/03/2018  4:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bamasoe to your friends list
Thanks coop. Guess I will go with struck through error for now
Pillar of the Community
United States
3669 Posts
 Posted 05/03/2018  11:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fortcollins to your friends list
@bamasoe, First, thank you for the additional photos. They are helpful, and may rule out some of the possibilities.

Regarding the more northwesterly crease (from Liberty to Trust), I'm with @coop on this looking like it is struck through. Whatever the object, it was a pretty decent size to leave a mark like that. The coin is definitely a keeper for that. The lack of damage to the edge and reverse seem consistent with a struck through error.

Regarding the more southeasterly arc, I originally thought it was PMD, but now I'm not so sure. My first impression was that the lower arc cut across or through the angular shape below the "S" of Trust. Your photo flips that impression. The angular shape appears to be PMD, and appears to ride on top of the arc. I enhanced your photo, and here's the critical area:

1909-Lincoln-Cent---Lam-Err?

What appeared somewhat angular in the more distant shot actually is a series of gouges from contact. The gouges are on both sides of the arc, and appear to cross its surface. If that read is correct, the arc preceded the PMD.

The mystery deepens where the arc crosses "Liberty." Here is an enhanced closeup of your shot of the "RT" of "Liberty."

1909-Lincoln-Cent---Lam-Err?

Unless I'm mistaken, the arc passes directly beneath the angled right leg of the "R" but does not appear to damage that part of the "R." There is a contact ding on the curve of the "R" but that appears to be far too minimal to be from any post-mint impact capable of inflicting the arc on the coin. The discoloration also doesn't seem to affect the letters "R" or "T" either.

I confess, I have no clear idea what caused the more southeasterly arc. There could be a variety of post-mint causes (non-impact contact with something that corroded the surface is one), but I just don't see it as being caused by impact of something with the surface of the coin. If it were the result of impact, I would expect to see the "RT" of Liberty sustain much more damage and would expect to see evident damage on the reverse.

You have quite the mystery coin there.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
12477 Posts
 Posted 05/04/2018  12:30 am  Show Profile   Check spru's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add spru to your friends list
With the new pics (thanks!), I agree that the upper squiggly line is most likely struck-through, maybe thread/fiber.

The lower, more perfect arc is interesting as I noticed the same thing @fortcollins points out about where it crosses LIBERTY.

In Memory of Crazyb0 12-26-1951 to 7-27-2020
In Memory of Tootallious 3-31-1964 to 4-15-2020
In Memory of T-BOP 10-12-1949 to 1-19-2024
New Member
United States
40 Posts
 Posted 05/04/2018  10:03 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bamasoe to your friends list
Thank you all for the in depth analysis, will definitely be going in the 2x2 collection! Lots of over-my-head info to look up too haha
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