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Pillar of the Community
 United States
6130 Posts |
1.1.8 Coin 4 21mm 3.75g  This coin falls somewhere between coins 2 and 3 in terms of style, and despite the heavy wear, quite a lot of important detail is visible. Once again, the bust is characterized by its prominent Asiatic eye, this time topped by a heavy brow. The nose is somewhat and the nostril is smaller and further away. The lips are both dots, and the chin is not distinct from the necklace. A moustache runs from the top lip under the cheek to the beard. The beard is comprised of two rows of dots. The ear is high, small, and somewhat unusually engraved to simulate the ear canal. It wears the typical three-pearl earring. The hair bun is a pom pom behind the ear. The hat has a wide brim and a small semicircular bowl surrounded by a dotted line. The wings are not visible. The ribbons are poorly engraved: most notably, the lower part of the front ribbon is not smoothly curved, but comprised of five lines meeting at 90 degree angles. The This coin falls somewhere between coins 2 and 3 in terms of style, and despite the heavy wear, quite a lot of important detail is visible. Once again, the bust is characterized by its prominent Asiatic eye, this time topped by a heavy brow. The nose is somewhat longer and the nostril is smaller and further away. The lips are both dots, and the chin is not distinct from the necklace. A mustache runs from the top lip under the cheek to the beard. The beard is comprised of two rows of dots. The ear is high, small, and somewhat unusually engraved to simulate the ear canal. It wears the typical three-pearl earring. The hair bun is a pom pom behind the ear. The hat has a wide brim and a small semicircular bowl surrounded by a dotted line. The wings are not visible. The ribbons are poorly engraved: most notably, the lower part of the front ribbon is not smoothly curved, but comprised of five lines meeting at 90 degree angles. The upper portion of both ribbons are small and cramped around other features of the coin. The fire altar is mostly visible on this coin, and is tall and reasonably wide. The flame follows the typical 4-3-2-1 pattern, although the right attendants inner arm merges with the bottom and rightmost fire dot. The shaft is a pillar with an indistinct central decoration and the ribbons are confused piles of dots. The moon is on the upper right, and is a small crescent, the sun is not visible. The attendants have large circular heads, a small solid necklace atop two large breasts. Unusually, their arms are not distinct and merge with the exaggerated herringbones of their dresses, which seem to extend to the end of the die without a hem or legs present.
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Pillar of the Community
 Spain
2752 Posts |
Great write-up Steve! I wholeheartedely agree with Bob... I already use your reference system to chronologically itemise my small collection and I'm sure in the years to come people will be using Finns reference book to attribute their own collections. Great detailed analysis and I'm thoroughly enjoying the ride..Thanks 
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
6130 Posts |
1.1.8 Coin 5 20mm 3.81g  Another slight variation on the same theme, this coin shows an even further level of degeneracy. The eye has the characteristic < shape, but has no pupil. The nose is typical, and the nostril is a detached dot sitting near the cheek. The mustache originates from between the nostril and upper lip and runs onto the cheek before merging with it. The lips and chin are all dots, and the beard is made of two rows of dots. The ear is high, small, and greatly simplified, and sports the typical earring with two pearls on chains and a third hovering below it. The necklace and shoulder pads are too difficult to make out, and the hat is entirely off-flan. The front ribbon is notable for being made of two separate strokes; a feature we have not seen since early in the series. The fire altar is sloppily engraved, with crooked lines, flame dots that fail to follow straight lines and merge with their surroundings. The shaft is a lozenge shape, and the ribbons are almost circular. The moon is visible at the upper left, and the sun is an unusual starfish shape - we will actually see this shape as a countermark on a future coin. The attendants have large round heads, a solid necklace, prominent breasts, sharply jointed arms, and the characteristic "mermaid skeleton" dress of herringbones that seems to run off the die without ever forming a hem or legs.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
6130 Posts |
1.1.8 Coin 6 21mm 3.91g  While the fabric of this coin is not terribly different from the past five, I find it interesting that this was seemingly struck with a much smaller die, perhaps small enough to fit entirely on-flan were it better centered and struck. The portrait is yet a bit more simplified, showing a characteristic Asiatic eye with an unadorned pupil. The nose is quite short, and the nostril hovers midway between the nose and cheek. The lips and chin are large dots, and no mustache is visible. The beard and everything else to the left of the cheek is not visible. The hat bowl takes a conservative semicircular shape with a solid outline and a large dotted brim. The wings are two crescent shapes, only connected at the top. The ribbon is well spaced and straight, although the bottom portion once again curiously assumes a shape reminiscent of the letter Ha. The fire altar is a bit better engraved than is typical; it is tall, not overly wide, and is almost straight. We see the flame seems to follow the canonical 4-3-2-1 shape, although only the bottom two rows are visible. The shaft is a pillar with a central bulge, and the ribbons are a confused jumble of dots. The attendants have medium sized circular heads, a solid necklace, large breasts, jointed arms, and confused herringbone dresses that taper off indistinctly.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
6130 Posts |
1.1.9 - Closing SeriesThis series is admittedly yet another junk bucket for coins at the end of series 1.1 that all share one very important feature with coins of series 1.2 on to the end: The attendants do not hold the fire altar ribbons, which now lay along the base of the fire altarWhether any of these coins are strictly related, I cannot comment, but given that nearly every other coin depicts attendants holding a sagging ribbon, the possibility is worth further investigation. I hope to add more examples of this type, but they do not show up often. We can at least break this type up into three distinct varieties. 1.1.9.1 - Closing Series I - Hunnic face, Skirt attendants These I admittedly do not yet understand well. Contrasting series 1.1.8, these initial coins have well-engraved reverses featuring attendants who do not have long dresses, but rather a small skirt beneath their arm, with legs portruding below. They are also characterized by having a tiny fire altar ribbon that hangs almost straight down and is not held by the attendants. 1.1.9.1 Coin 1 22mm  I had originally considered my second coin to be a one-off; probably an imitation of unknown provenance, but the discovery of this coin (and a few more similar to it in Maheshwari's book) prove that this is in fact a variety, regardless of how many pieces are missing to this puzzle. The portrait is worn nearly flat, but we can make out enough for analysis. Overall, this seems to be at least closely related to 1.1.6. The head is large on the coin, realistically proportioned, ans seems to be of the line relief type. The eyes are small dots within a circle, and the nose is a nearly vertical line, with the nostril presenting as a dot a short distance away and under the eye. The lips are dots, and the top lip is connected to a mustache that seems to curl without ever touching the cheek. The beard is somewhat visible and either by design or through wear, the beard dots have merged to give the portrait a solid chin. The cheek seems to be round, but is mostly lost to wear. The ear is high, reasonably large, simple, and wears the typical three-pearl earring. The hair bun is a large blob with protruding rays. The hat bowl is small, surrounded by a border of dots, and interestingly does not seem to have a brim at all. The wings are somewhat visible, but difficult to make out any detail. The front ribbon seems to originate from the lips, and the lower portion merges with the bottom line of the upper to form what almost looks like the Brahmi letter Ha. The rear is totally lost to wear. The reverse is where it gets interesting. The fire altar is tall, reasonably wide, and interestingly seems to curve ever so slightly to the right. Four flame dots are visible at the bottom row, but the rest is worn flat. The shaft is a pillar, perhaps originally decorated as a star. The ribbons hang down from the bottom of the fire altar bowl to the top of the base, and are not touched by the attendants. The attendants have large circular heads, a solid necklace, long arms that join sharply at the elbow, two very prominent breasts, and wear a small skirt. There is a gap between the bottom of the arms and the top of the skirt. the skirt is made of 3-4 herringbones, and solid lines form the legs; the feet represented by dots.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
6130 Posts |
1.1.9.1 Coin 2 20mm 3.99g  This coin is quite different from the first, and is placed here only by virtue of its reverse. Perhaps the most notable feature of this coin is the face, which is mostly solid, with hollowed out parts to hold the facial features. The eye is large, unadorned, and sits in a hollow socket beneath a heavy brow that joins directly to the nose. The nostril is a tiny dot between the nose and upper cheek. The lips and chin are dots, and the mustache is large, angular, and runs into a cavity hollowed out of the cheek. The beard is mostly worn away, but we can see some of it near the ear. The ear is large, simple, and wears the usual three-pearl earring. The hair bun is a large pom pom behind the earring. The hat has a large semicircular bowl surrounded by a solid outline, and interestingly has no brim, just like the first coin. The wings are medium sized, simply engraved cornucopiae. Teh bottom portion of the ribbon is engraved in two parallel lines and stylishly curved; the front originates from the lips, and the back from between the hair bun and ear! The upper portion of the ribbons are small, well-spaced, and engraved at a slant, more like the original Peroz than the majority of these Indian imitations. The shoulder pads are visible as solid clubs beneath the neck and necklace. The fire altar is narrow, short, and seems to be well-engraved, although wear obscures much of it. The fire is too worn to make out except for a few dots. The shaft is a simple pillar, and the ribbons are short lines flanking it, once again running from the bottom of the bowl to the top of the base. The sun and moon are not visible. The attendants have large circular heads, small solid necklaces, prominent breasts, long jointed arms, and a skirt made of 2-3 herringbones in a crescent shape, and short legs protruding from the bottom.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
6130 Posts |
1.1.9.2 - Closing Series II - Proto-Chavada type face, atypical attendants This series is interesting in that nearly every specimen I have seen (not many!) is almost exactly alike, yet none are die-matched. It has the diagnostic fire altar with hanging ribbons, yet the portrait style, attendants, and fire altar would otherwise place it very early in this series. Unlike most other coins, the attendants of these series have bodies engraved in relief, the herringbones engraved on top; thus on worn specimens (and most of these are) they appear to not have herringbones at all! The portrait also is approaching series 1.2, which we will call the Chavada type for convenience. Most importantly, it is engraved in relief, and it is becoming much more difficult to discern the head from the headgear. 1.1.9.2 Coin 1 21mm 4.00g This first coin is the most worn, but still gives some interesting insights. The portrait is tall, engraved in relief, and seems to be almost seamlessly merged with the headgear. The eye is a dot sitting within its socket, and the nose is a slanted, relatively long line. The nostril is a dot and sits between the nose and cheek. The lips are dots, and a mustache extends from the upper lip down to the jaw. The beard is engraved on the portrait in relief, and here is mostly worn away. The ear is barely visible, but we can see a hanging two-pearl earring in the usual upside down Y shape. The neck is a small crescent beneath the portrait, and is lined with a small necklace of pearls. The helmet and wings are not visible. The shoulder pads are large clubs beneath the portrait, each outlined in dots. The ribbon initially seems to be rather ordinary, but look closely and you will notice that it originates from the shoulder pad and loops around on itself before falling into the normal backwards S shape. The upper portion is made of three horizontal lines which are well-engraved and tightly spaced. The fire altar is tall and thin, with the flame being made of very tightly clustered dots so that most seem to blend together. The bowl and base are mirror images of each other, and the shaft seems to be a star. The ribbons hang to the side. The sun is a small pom pom to the upper left, and the moon is a semicircle with a central dot at the upper right. The attendants each have medium sized circular heads with necklaces made of about five dots. Their breasts are prominent right beneath the necklace. The body is the most fascinating and unusual feature; it curves gracefully in an almost serpentine fashion. Herringbones are visible beneath the breasts, but otherwise the bodies appear to be solid. The attendants' shoulders are lined up with the top of the fire altar bowl, so the altar-side arm hangs down rather than in an upwards salute. The far arm is a single curved line and crosses across the stomach, gesturing toward the ribbon. No feet or legs are visible.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
6130 Posts |
Coin 2 21mm 3.94g This coin is very nearly identical to Coin 1, but we can see quite a bit more this time around. The eye here shows as a dot tightly hugged by a semicircular eye socket. The beard is a bit better engraved, and does not sit directly atop the cheek; there is a very slight gap. We can see the ear, which is simply engraved and wears a three-pearl earring, this time with two separate chains directly connected to the lobe, with the third pearl connected to a low-relief chain that convincingly portrays a sense of depth. A fascinating and advanced thing to see on these coins! The hair bun is a six-pointed star. The hat is slightly separated from the rest of the face by a line that may be the top of a heavy brow--the bowl is slanted slightly to the back, but is otherwise a semicircle. We can almost see the Korymbos, but nothing useful for analysis. The wings are small cornucopiae shapes opening downward, and there are two small decorative spurs on either side of the hat bowl. No brim is visible. The shoulder pads are again large clubs outlined with dots, but now we can see a central brooch made of a circle with a dot in the middle. The rear ribbon is visible, and once again does the fascinating loop-de-loop! The upper portion is slanted to fill in as much space as possible between the hair bun and wing. The fire altar of this coin is still tall, but this time a bit wider, and the shaft is shorter and takes the form of a cross. The flame is made of neatly ordered rows of dots in a 4-4-3-2-1 pattern, although the top two rows are a bit smaller, either by design, or the celator realizing he was running out of room! The ribbons are much more visible on this coin, and clearly hang in straight lines parallel to the slant of the base. The sun is at the upper left, and is a dot with small rays emanating from it, and the moon is a tiny crescent in the upper left. The attendants have slightly more realistic heads that are upside down tear drops, rather than circles. Each wears a necklace of 5 or 6 pearls, and the breasts again are prominent. The bodies are again quite serpentine, and the herringbones are more visible here, but the bodies still look mostly solid beneath the arm. A hem is visible at the bottom of the dress, but still no legs or feet. As with the previous coin, the inner arm hangs down (although it is larger to match to the increased bowl size), and the outer arm curves smoothly across the stomach.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
6130 Posts |
Coin 3 21mm 3.61g Another that initially appears to be more of the same old thing, but there are still important differences. Again the head is tall and almost seems to merge with the hat. Like on the last coin, we can see the eye engraved as a dot tightly hugged by a semicircular socket, and this time we can see a curved brow above it! The beard is completely worn away to give the jaw a bumpy outline. The ear again is large and somewhat simple, and this time has a visible dot on the ear lobe. Like the previous coin, there are three pearls attached to three chains, but this time the middle chain is engraved in the same relief as the others. The hair bun is a large circle with six rays coming from it. The ribbon unfortunately is somewhat worn; there are two faint lines near the lips of the portrait, but I cannot tell if those are intentional, or flan defects. The lower portion is a typical reversed S shape, and the upper portion is well engraved and horizontal. The rear is about the same, but slightly curved toward the head. The wings are again cornucopiae shapes, but seem to be almost an extension of the ribbon. No brim is visible. There are two small pellets on either side of the hat, rather than spurs as on the last coin. The Korymbos is almost visible, but obscured by a crack in the flan. The fire altar is nearly the same as on the last coin, but here the flame is a messy, almost solid shape with only a few haphazard dots visible. The sun is somewhat visible in the upper left, and the moon is a medium sized crescent in the upper right. The ribbons are straight lines of dots that run parallel to the base. The attendants have large, off-round heads and necklaces made of maybe six fine, tightly clustered pearls. The breasts are large and prominent, and beneath them are two large herringbones. Beneath the arm, the dress seems to be truncated into a skirt, as on 1.1.9.1. No legs are visible beneath the skirt. Again, the inner arm hangs down, and the outer arm curves gracefully across the stomach.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7066 Posts |
Great update, Steve. Interesting to note the attention given to the symmetrical presentation of the obverse ribbons on coin 2 in this update. Also, I think I may see some tiny lines radiating out of the upper portion of the "S" shapes on the obverse ribbons of both 1.1.9.2 coin 1 and 2. If indeed the serpentine ("S") shapes represent ribbons - meaning fabric - could these tiny lines represent threads? Do such lines appear elsewhere in other varieties? (I know the typically heavy wear might make that a difficult question to answer)
Forgive me if the following is addressed somewhere in the preceding pages - this is becoming a dense but truly fascinating thread. Please remind me if this typological/stylistic tour, comparing and contrasting the Peroz derivations, is a proposed chronology? Are you proposing that each stylistic adjustment builds upon the previous (or restores an earlier device, as the case may be), thus suggesting that each new Finn# represents a later development than the preceding one? Or is the dating and resultant chronology of these issues an entirely separate issue, not addressed here?
Edited by Kamnaskires 03/21/2019 7:00 pm
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
6130 Posts |
Thanks Bob!
For the first question, it's difficult to assess, but I suspect that the stray lines around the ribbon may be artifacts of the flan preparation process. Some of these early types have unstuck areas that demonstrate a peculiar pattern (1.1.2 Coin 5) that I can only suppose was leftover from the flan prep. We can see these lines on other later types; even my avatar has faint "icing drizzle" lines between some of the devices. I'm really not 100% sure either way.
For your second question, I did the best I could, but I don't think there is a correct or even singular lineage from Peroz to the more standardized series 1.2. Quite likely, the celatores of the "landed" Gujjars (i.e. the Chavada dynasty) synthesized a design somewhere in the middle of this crazy series. I wish there was a straightforward answer, but ultimately no amount of searching will discover the missing link between an ichthyosaur and a dolphin!
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
6130 Posts |
1.1.9.3 - Closing Series III - Chavada PortraitThis final type is primarily responsible for why this thread has taken me nearly a year to complete! What I initially thought was a paradigm shift in the development from haphazard series 1.1 to the more standardized 1.2 was in actuality a gradual evolution. This very nearly closes the gap, but not so much that they don't belong here. Important features to note: - These coins have <b>one ribbon</b> on either side of the fire altar - 1.2 onward has two - The portraits are very similar to 1.2, but usually have more elongated foreheads - The attendants still wear herringbone dresses, but Maheshwari illustrates a few where the attendant's body has nearly withered away into a ball - The flames are standardized into ordered rows of dots, but they are not firmly standardized into a 4-3-2-1 pattern yet. 1.1.9.3 Coin 1 21mm 3.96g  Here we finally see the portrait type that will come to dominate all of series 1.2, which I call the Chavada type for convenience. The portrait is tall, thin, has a very tall cheek, jutting eyebrow, and elongated forehead. The eye is an unadorned dot sitting at the top of a large chasm that is the face. The nostril, lips, and chin all line up with the eye nearly perfectly. There is the faintest hint of a moustache on the top lip, but it is nearly worn away. The beard is made up of fine dots that hover a short distance from the face and wrap around the head before trailing off to become the brim of the hat. The ear is high, small, simplified, and touts the standard three-pearl earring. The hair bun is an indistinct star behind the ear. The ribbon is somewhat visible, but too badly worn to provide any useful insights. Almost none of the headgear is visible, but we can see a very tall forehead that leans slightly backward. The fire altar has nearly completed its transformation into the Chavada type. It is tall, quite wide, and most importantly, the shaft has transformed into an eight-rayed star; the vertical rays much longer than the rest, like the stereotypical "Star of Bethlehem". The ribbons originate from the bottom line of the fire altar bowl, and hang down its side and out of sight off the die. The flames are neat rows of dots, but curiously there is an extra bottom row of 5 dots... two steps forward, one step back? The sun is on the left, and is an uneven six-pointed star, and the moon is on the right, a long thin crescent without any central dot. The attendants are quite simplified at this point - the head is a small circle atop a solid necklace crescent. The right attendant has visible breasts, but they are not even. She has a medium sized arm that joints at the elbow at about 90 degrees. Her skirt is made of herringbones with no visible legs.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
6130 Posts |
And that - finally! - wraps up series 1.1!
I am waiting on a few coins that are coming in the mail before I kick off 1.2, so it might be a while - I do have a couple new adds that I need to image, upload, and do write-ups for; this thread hopefully will be a living document as my collection grows.
While we are waiting, I wanted to check with you all - How are we feeling about the level of attention to detail? I know that I have noticed some things that I would otherwise miss by forcing myself to pay attention to every minute detail, but the prospect of having to sit down and write a couple paragraphs per coin has been slowing me down. Is it worth the wait, or would you prefer to see me cut back on the scope of my descriptive write ups and knock out a series every 1-2 months?
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Pillar of the Community
 Spain
2752 Posts |
Steve I'm thoroughly enjoying the ride...So whatever is easier for you..
The only thing I would suggest is to maybe highlight the areas of the coin you are describing with circles or arrows to help people who are unfamiliar with this coin type understand the different details you are discussing...Just a thought....Paul
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7066 Posts |
Quote: ...thoroughly enjoying the ride...So whatever is easier for you..
. I agree with Paul. I truly appreciate thorough descriptions that take a full inventory of visual information - and, indeed I devoted an entire chapter of a design textbook, used by the students where I teach, to strategies for engaging in such deep analyses and descriptions. It can be a tough sell to students who grew up in a texting world. However, if such detailed work slows down the thread, then some abbreviated form may be warranted. I'd miss the descriptions, but given the context - a forum thread rather than a book - I could see tough choices being made for expediency as you move forward, Steve. I can await your eventual print publication for my more detailed descriptions (I mean, this has to be leading that way, right?)...I'll be patient.
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Replies: 70 / Views: 9,915 |
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