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1793 Wreath Cent "smith Enhanced"

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 Posted 07/24/2018  4:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jimbucks to your friends list
Wouldn't that be similar to a coin that was "tooled"? Tooled coins have a diminished value. The seller has a story to tell, but provides nothing to back it up with respect to this particular coin.
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 Posted 07/24/2018  4:21 pm  Show Profile   Check 52Raymo's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 52Raymo to your friends list
From Coin World...



The "Smith Counterfeit" is a curious 19th century numismatic oddity. Coin World's Paul Gilkes wrote in his Dec. 2, 2013, feature on contemporary counterfeits, "The Smith counterfeits were heavily circulated 1793 and 1794 cents that engraver William D. Smith — known as Smith of 1 Ann Street in New York City — re-engraved in the late 1850s and early 1860s to resemble higher grade 1793 cents. Some collectors suggest the Smith counterfeits are not counterfeits at all, but simply alterations to genuine U.S. Mint cents."

Smith would begin with a well-worn host coin, and he extensively reworked both sides. The description notes that the present piece has a weight of only 157.1 grains, versus the standard 208.0-grain weight of a typical 1793 Flowing Hair cent, showing just how much metal was removed during Smith's handiwork.

1793 Flowing Hair, Wreath cent, altered, "Smith Counterfeit," Fine 12
Carrying an estimate of $2,000 and up, it brought $2,585.
1793-Wreath-Cent-“smith-Enhanced”
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Edited by 52Raymo
07/24/2018 4:37 pm
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 Posted 07/24/2018  4:34 pm  Show Profile   Check 52Raymo's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 52Raymo to your friends list
The ebay one is a bit different than the one in Coin World. If I knew it was the real thing maybe I would bite on it. Would be a gamble.
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 Posted 07/24/2018  4:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dave700x to your friends list
Quite the difference between the one pictured in the Coin World article and the example for sale on ebay.
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 Posted 07/24/2018  5:00 pm  Show Profile   Check 52Raymo's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 52Raymo to your friends list
Yes, the obverse of the one on ebay looks like it's been jacked with. The patina is way different than the reverse. Plus it doesn't match up at all with the genuine fake lol.
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 Posted 07/24/2018  5:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MeadowviewCollector to your friends list

I've heard of these.

Before I would even consider buying the cent in question I would want the opinions/input from knowledgeable EAC members or dealers.

-MV
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 Posted 07/24/2018  5:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dave700x to your friends list
I contacted an EAC member on another forum and his reply was:

Quote:
Hi Dave; I saw that one and wondered myself if it is actually a "Smith". I have several friends in EAC who collect them and several images and this one doesn't have the right "look" to me (if we are talking about the same one!), plus, "real" ones go for $2500-$3000.
Edited by dave700x
07/24/2018 5:42 pm
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 Posted 07/24/2018  7:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add thecoinguy1964 to your friends list
News to me too. Amazing the things I learn from this forum, thanks for sharing.
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 Posted 07/24/2018  9:34 pm  Show Profile   Check 52Raymo's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 52Raymo to your friends list
You're welcome. Thanks Dave !
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 Posted 07/24/2018  9:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dave700x to your friends list
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 Posted 07/24/2018  9:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list
Yes Smith "counterfeits are valuable", Is the ebay coin a "Smith" piece? Frankly I don't now. Trying to compare one Smith piece with to another can be misleading because since every one of them was done by hand, and using different varieties of cent for the original starting place, working with coins that had different amounts of wear, every one is going to look different. Add to the that the problem that if someone else did a similar type of re-engraving could you tell that one was done by Smith and one by someone else? If you had the chance to study enough known Smith pieces you might be able to pice up on a stylistic characteristic, but you also have the problem of being sure the pieces you studied were actually Smith pieces. I've only seen three or four pieces that were identified as Smith pieces, but tthey had no proof they were all done by the same person so they could be by different hands as well.

So I would say that while they have an interesting story, I would not pay a premium price for one because there is no way to guarantee that it is what it claims to be.
Edited by Conder101
07/24/2018 9:51 pm
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 Posted 07/24/2018  11:53 pm  Show Profile   Check 52Raymo's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 52Raymo to your friends list
Thanks Conder, I appreciate your input.
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 Posted 08/19/2018  10:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add NH collector to your friends list
The coin in question is not a Smith piece. Too crude. This is mine:
1793-Wreath-Cent-“smith-Enhanced”
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 Posted 08/21/2018  08:56 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add just carl to your friends list
I wonder if China has started making those.
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