Flandrian Double Groot Boldager (1346 To 1384 Ad)

Great looking coin!

You rock @tdz! Thanks for this info.

Awesome coin Spence! In the Dutch market, these botdragers are amongst the most common Dutch late-medieval silver pieces you can find, only to be beaten by the Leeuwengroten from the ruler by the same name, but can be extremely pretty with their large flan size and pretty design. The term 'botdrager' (in Middle-Dutch often spelled as Botdreger, Boddreger or boudrager) is fairly difficult to translate and how it became known as the name for a denomination is quite funny. Sadly I must disappoint you by telling you that this specific type, while having been called 'Botdrager' by the numismatic community for at least a century, sadly is not actually a botdrager! Multiple books and articles have tried to correct this mistake, but it seems to continue to this day. The true botdrager was not introduced until 1389; roughly five years after the death of Louis. These were rather called Plaques, Dubbele groten (double groats) or Lion d'argent (silver lion). The true botdragers (see image below) were first issued by Louis' successor, Phillip the Bold, and were called botdragers because of their obverse image. In it we see a rather similar lion, wearing a sort of 'cape' with the coat of arms on it. If we dissect the word 'botdrager', we see two words: Bot and Drager. Drager translates to 'wearer' and Bot is an archaic term for a special type of woven basket worn on the back; the cape apparently reminded people of this phenomena, and the name stuck and was even put in 'official' documents.



To further expand upon the information provided by tdziemia:

- 1st emission: Gent, 28/03/1365 untill 11/12/1367 (I'm using d/m/y in case that wasn't clear). 14.583.450 pieces struck. Exterior legend punctuation: 3 dots, interior parsley. Round-backed E's.

- 2nd emission: Gent, 21/01/1368 untill 18/06/1368. 1.353.750 pieces struck. Exterior legend punctuation 3 dots, Clover instead of parsley punctuation on the interior legend. Round-backed E's.

- 3rd emission: Gent, 18/06/1368 untill 09/08/1369. 7.987.125 pieces struck. Exterior legend punctuation 3 dots, Clover punctuation on the interior legend. Acute-backed E's.

- 4th emission: Gent, 18/06/1373 untill 27/06/1377. 5.721.375 pieces struck. Exterior legend punctuation: two dots instead of three, Clover punctuation on the interior legend. Round-backed E's again.

- 5th emission: Mechelen, 30/01/1380-11/09/1383: 6.502.670 pieces struck. Exterior legend punctuation: two dots instead of three, Clover punctuation on the interior legend. Acute-backed E's again.

-(6th emission: Mechelen, 12/09/1383 untill 29/02/1384. 797.500 pieces struck. A somewhat obscure emission with only limited specimens produced, sometimes grouped under the fifth. Usually specimens with lacking interpunction are put here, but this is a highly debated group.)

All of these data are derived from administrative documents from the mint that somehow survived and have been carefully studied by numismatists over the past few decades. But keep in mind that these are rough estimates based on the amount of silver processed; the actual amount produced will likely vary by a few handful. Every 3-4 months the mint would report and file a document, meaning we have data on mint-output quite frequently! Some of these numbers are quite staggering. Between 28/3/1365 and 28/6/1365, the first period in which these were minted, the output was no less than 1.932.300 coins for this type alone! That's more than 21.000 coins PER DAY! Your piece belongs to this first emission; Parsley, three dots and round-backed E's.

If you really wanna browse Gaillard: https://archive.org/details/recherc...es00gailuoft . But there are a few more up-to-date references for this type!

@austrokiwi, I agree this coin should relate to the gros tournois family. The face value is 2 gros (dubbel groot, or as described in Gaillard, "lion d'argent deux gros").

I think by 1360-1380 the French gros tournois may be lower than 4 g. in mass? But the comparisons across time and/or countries are always complicated by the issue of silver content of the coins. As this was during the 100 years' war (not sure what this is called on the continent) there is also the angle of debasment of the denomination in some countries that needed cash to pay their armies...

But I think you've researched this quite deeply already, so it will be interesting to hear your findings and thoughts.

I became interested in the name Plak. Did a little digging and found in Freys Dictionary of Numismatic names some interesting info. Frey notes the French equivalent was Plaque. Annoyingly Frey doesn't explain why he thought it was important to point out the French Equivalent. When I go to his entry on Plaque he refers the reader back to Plak.

Frey does state that there are a variety of Meanings for plak: " flat surface, a plate, a Shield, a piece of tin etc.

I suspect the coin was called Plak due to the large diameter combined with it thinness( I am assuming it is a typical thin coin, perhaps it even got that name form the mint workers who produced it. I also expect( but would like it confirmed) that the blank had been cut from a sheet that had been produced by hand hammering( using flattening hammers) bar. It is easy to see this( for those who might not know) just examine the coin edge on. If the sheet had been produced by hammering the coin will be of uneven thickness.

Although I have stated what I think Plak might refer to it is just as likely PLak referred to the design on the coin.

At the risk of "scope creep" here is a sampling of this general type in NW Europe late 14th c. for those still following (and a well known U.S. type for size reference).
Upper left: Lorraine (Nancy mint), plaque (= 2 gros) Marie de Blois regency for Duke Jean I. 1346-48.
Upper right: Flanders (Ghent mint), dubbele groot, same as OP's, 1365-67.
Lower left: Brabant (Louvain mint), double gros, Duke Antoine 1406-15.

noted!