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Pillar of the Community
 United States
5786 Posts |
I apologize because I should have been more clear when I stated "the top of the C lined up with the center of a denticle."
I should have said:
The image Collectinsince65 posted of his coin appears to show the straight part of the upper serif on the C of AMERICA lined up with the center of a denticile.
Words of encouragement are one of the major food groups.
We need to consume them regularly to thrive and grow.
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Valued Member
 United States
320 Posts |
Petespockets55 Wow you're right-- appears to be two different dies! Great pickup! So now the question is what is this rascal?
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Valued Member
United States
70 Posts |
The obverse design was included on the master die; therefore, there should be no inconsistencies in the legend placement for 1863 cent obverses. Obverse 38 should exhibit die file marks by the ear and a small die chip by the Y of LIBERTY. In addition, Reverse W should feature an approximate 10 degree rotation. Does your coin exhibit these die attributes? If so, then it was struck from the 1863 Variety 83 die pairing.
Edited by indiancentvarieties
02/20/2019 11:22 am
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts |
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Valued Member
United States
320 Posts |
indiancentvarities Yes the coin does have the die file marks behind the ear and I believe it does have the small chip next to the y. Reverse does appear to have the slightest rotation left /west. Thank you for your help. any idea of approximate value? In hand seems like a nice vf.
Edited by collectinsince65
02/20/2019 6:27 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5786 Posts |
Thanks Indiancentvarieties for pointing that out because I wondered about that. (Thank you by the way for your site and efforts for the hobby. Extremely helpful and valuable resource) But now I'm wondering what would cause the orientation of the C to change in relation to a particular denticile, as this 1863 example seems to show? I just thought maybe there might be production methods in place that could cause a possible difference (ie: The Type 1 & Type 2 in 1886.) Did the mint have multiple master dies for IH production that might account for a difference? My main interest is Lincoln cents and have seen very similar die markers and errors on Lincoln Cent varieties repeated on dies in the same year. Such as die cracks, chips, Cuds, polishing marks, feeder finger scrapes etc. showing up. I'm not saying that is the case here but that is why I'm wondering about whether the same can happen with Indian cent series. Thanks in advance for any insight to help me further my learning and understanding. Words of encouragement are one of the major food groups.
We need to consume them regularly to thrive and grow.
Edited by Petespockets55
02/21/2019 05:33 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
8520 Posts |
So many 1863's are out there that they're not worth much. That small of a Cud wouldn't add any premium imo. Oregon coin geek.....*** GO BEAVS ! ! ! ***
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Valued Member
United States
70 Posts |
Quote:
indiancentvarities Yes the coin does have the die file marks behind the ear and I believe it does have the small chip next to the y. Reverse does appear to have the slightest rotation left /west. Thank you for your help. any idea of approximate value? In hand seems like a nice vf. Ok. The die file marks and die chip by LIBERT(Y) are diagnostic attributes of Obverse 38. Reverse AAAG should be rotated clockwise approximately 10 degrees. When roughly measuring any die rotation, a straight line may be traced on a 2x2. This line can now be a reference line that extends between the 'ED' of UNITED and between the ME of AMERICA. When you flip the coin, you should visually see a rotation clockwise by using the tops of CENT as a reference. In terms of value, I would assign a premium of 25% to 50%. Though Variety 83 is tentatively URS-8 in regard to the die pairing, the die file marks and rim break account for the premium. Edited by indiancentvarieties
02/21/2019 10:46 am
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Valued Member
United States
70 Posts |
Petespockets55, thank you for your kind words regarding the Web Book!
I would assume that the perceived difference in placement of the legend was most likely an illusion. The obverse master die included all elements of the design and would later hub a woking hub and finally a working die. Therefore, there would be no appreciable difference in dies other than date placement, which occurred individually on each working die until 1909 and circumstances occurring during the die making process such as die damage, hubbing strike-throughs, hubbing misalignments (doubled dies), hubbing depth and etc.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5786 Posts |
You're welcome but you deserve the praise for your efforts.
Thank you for the clarifying that for me. Most helpful.
Words of encouragement are one of the major food groups.
We need to consume them regularly to thrive and grow.
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Valued Member
United States
320 Posts |
Thank you Indiancentvarieties. I sincerely appreciate your sharing your knowledge. Have a new Indian which I hope to have in hand today. Posting it in a new thread. Thank you again!
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Valued Member
United States
70 Posts |
You are very welcome collectinsince65. I look forward to hearing about your new purchase.
Did you try out what I mentioned about a 2x2 and die rotation?
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Valued Member
United States
320 Posts |
Indiancentvarieties. Yes I will on Sunday when I can spend some time with it. Thank you again!
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Valued Member
United States
70 Posts |
No, I was not the editor for any of his work. The only thing I contributed to his books were some discovery pieces that I discovered and he attributed and published.
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Valued Member
United States
320 Posts |
My mistake Indiancentvarieties ..Thank you again David.
Mike
Edited by collectinsince65
02/24/2019 3:24 pm
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Posted 02/20/2019 09:29 am
