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Lincoln Roll Find - Chuck And Bill, Please Recheck

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 Posted 10/12/2008  12:00 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list
The rim is part of a setup process that forms the rim to widen it to protect the designs. I've seen these line on many of the newer zincolns. I have an idea they are part of a texture on the planchet material. For some reason they don't all disappear during striking. Flow through devices/fields and remain. But because of the setup process the metal is moved enough to remove them from that area.
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 Posted 10/12/2008  01:25 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BadThad to your friends list

Quote:
The rim is part of a setup process that forms the rim to widen it to protect the designs. I've seen these line on many of the newer zincolns. I have an idea they are part of a texture on the planchet material. For some reason they don't all disappear during striking. Flow through devices/fields and remain. But because of the setup process the metal is moved enough to remove them from that area.


WOW!

This is pretty profound! I would love to see some pictures of what you have. This is the first time I've ever seen it and apparently Chuck and Bill too. I can't wait to read their comments.

If this is indeed not a post mint problem, then this would have to classify as an error, right?
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 Posted 10/12/2008  3:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coindexter to your friends list
I believe it's a Grease Filled Die with some kind of post mint damage for the lines. Almost like it had been laying on a paper towel or rag with some chemical on it and that would also explain the heavy toning. Just a guess tho. Cool coin tho Bad thad. Here is a Greaser I have found also.
Lincoln-Roll-Find---Chuck-And-Bill,-Please-Recheck
Edited by coindexter
10/12/2008 3:32 pm
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 Posted 10/12/2008  4:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BadThad to your friends list

Quote:
Almost like it had been laying on a paper towel or rag with some chemical on it....


The thing is, the lines are not on the rims at all. If this was lying on something, the rims would be affected too. Plus, you have to read coop's post. This isn't the only coin in the world that looks like this apparently.

Nice Greaser you have there!
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 Posted 10/12/2008  4:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add foundinrolls to your friends list
Hi,

Please don't assume that we've never seen any like this before. I have at least a dozen that have been struck through heavy layers of grease that look exactly like this , lines and all.

I have not done any kind of study into what causes the lines but they happen as the coin is minted. It seems to be a function of the striking through the grease.

I have no explanation for the striated lines at this point, but I've seen them often and they are not post-mint damage.

Thanks,
Bill
Edited by foundinrolls
10/12/2008 4:31 pm
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 Posted 10/12/2008  4:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BadThad to your friends list
So this in fact qualifies as a mint error then? When you said "it had a rough life", I take it you meant the corrosion and not the lines/flattening of the obverse features? I interpreted your original comment as pertaining to the flattening/lines.

I almost discarded this coin because I thought those lines were post-mint damage. Now, I think it's worth keeping! Is there any way to substaintiate coop's theory that the lines are in the planchet? Wouldn't a blank planchet have the lines?
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 Posted 10/12/2008  9:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add foundinrolls to your friends list
I've never seen a planchet prior to being struck that has those lines but I can't rule it out.

Almost every copper-plated zinc cent that I find that was struck through a very heavy layer of grease has the same appearance , lines and all.

That's why I lean toward the issue of those lines being some anomaly that occurs as the coin is struck.

I'll see if I can find one here and photograph it.

The other point about your coin is that it is damaged and stained. had it not been damaged and stained it might have been worth a premium.

It is worth saving from an educational perspective but wouldn't be worth much at all otherwise.

Thanks,
Bill
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 Posted 10/12/2008  10:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BadThad to your friends list
OK, thanks Bill.

It'd be interesting to figure out where those lines come from. Would the mint be willing to explain?
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 Posted 10/12/2008  11:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coindexter to your friends list
I'm wondering if that(lines)is also what causes the wood grain effect on older copper coins that we see now and then? I bet it could be.
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 Posted 10/12/2008  11:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BadThad to your friends list

Quote:
I'm wondering if that(lines)is also what causes the wood grain effect on older copper coins that we see now and then? I bet it could be.


No, that's caused by an uneven alloy mix in the planchet.
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 Posted 10/12/2008  11:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add foundinrolls to your friends list
Hi,

Here is another coin showing the striations. Again I don't know why they are there but I have dozens that look like this. I was able to put my hands on 6 of different dates in the matter of an hour or so.

Thanks,
Bill

Lincoln-Roll-Find---Chuck-And-Bill,-Please-Recheck
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 Posted 10/12/2008  11:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add foundinrolls to your friends list
As far as an explanation from the Mint....forget it. They have a public relations dept. that used to be fairly good about responding to questions from authors and coin publications. A recent editorial in Coin World by Beth Deisher, The Coin World Editor tells about the fact that the Mint won't even respond at times anymore, and the information they provide when they do provide any usually doesn't address the question at all. In short, I've been waiting for 7 months for an answer to a simple question. The Mint's public relations dept. is not doing well, I'm afraid.
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 Posted 10/12/2008  11:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add foundinrolls to your friends list
Bad Thad has the right explanation on the "wood grain" cents. It is a problem with the mixture of the alloy and is not the same as the striations on these coins which are actually on the surface.

Thanks,
Bill
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 Posted 10/13/2008  09:24 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BadThad to your friends list
The striations on the posted coin do not look nearly as uniform as those on mine. Yours look more like random scratches then straight, even lines.

It's interesting that on both coins the portrait has a flattened appearance, like the strike was not strong enough to fully bring out the design. I don't see how a clogged die could cause that, do you? It looks more like a strike issue to me.
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 Posted 10/13/2008  10:29 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coppercoins to your friends list
I'm not sure what I would be re-checking on this coin, it hasn't changed since I saw it the first time.

The missing devices are a combination of weak strike and possibly some grease filling some of the areas of the die, but much more of the effect comes directly from the weak strike. The lines running across the coin are normal. In some form or fashion they show up on a lot of weakly struck coins. The lines strike out of the coin with good impressions from the die. They are probably part of the process of rolling the metal into sheets to be cut into blanks. The reason the lines don't go into the rim is because the rim strikes up first, even with weak strikes.

This is a curious coin, but not a valuable one. It could be classified as an error, but is by no means what I would consider a valuable centerpiece to an error collection. I have seen them a number of times before in roll searches and pass by them when they show up...just not interested in clogging up my collection with minor things. On the other hand, I have never found an unplated cent, a brockage, a struck through capped die...all more valuable coins that are considered 'errors' by the mainstream.

I guess it all comes down to where you draw the line with your own collection. Some people save every die crack, every die chip. I don't know why or how, but they do. If I saved every coin like that I came across, I would have well over 50,000 coins in the collection. As it stands, I have only about 5,000, and am happy with it at the level it's at. I don't have anything that a seasoned Lincoln specialist would toss in a bank bag wondering why I bothered to save it.
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