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1853 Gold Eagle - W/O Distractions, If Possible

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Valued Member
United States
257 Posts
 Posted 11/23/2008  7:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fmtaxguy to your friends list
I have added 3 additional photos to the original post showing the full reverse, bherring1964. I hope it helps.

A local dealer told me, today, that he wouldn't grade it over a VF 20 or 25. Maybe he was afraid I'd ask him to buy it. I am really trying to decide whether to keep it, now that I have it in hand. He also referred to the coin as "common" because of the 201k produced in 1853.

I thought that was still a small absolute number, given that (if true) over 95% of the gold coins prior to 1932 were recalled and melted down. This is the only (semi) affordable 1853 gold eagle I have run across to fill a space in my 1853 denomination collection. I just want to make sure that I am still not being taken. Your input is most appreciated, as I have another 5 days to return it if desired. Thanks all.
Edited by fmtaxguy
11/23/2008 7:29 pm
Bedrock of the Community
United States
10982 Posts
 Posted 11/23/2008  8:32 pm  Show Profile   Check BH1964's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add BH1964 to your friends list
What's up with the rim at 1:00 on the reverse? I'll look into the grading criteria but it's better than VF20 for sure.

What did you pay for it?
ANA #R3154474
Valued Member
United States
257 Posts
 Posted 11/23/2008  9:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fmtaxguy to your friends list
The rim has two nicks at 1:00 which do not extend over or around the edge. With shipping and insurance, I paid $581. Too much?
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 Posted 11/23/2008  9:56 pm  Show Profile   Check BH1964's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add BH1964 to your friends list

Quote:
With shipping and insurance, I paid $581. Too much?


For me it would have been too much. It's gold weight is just under 1/2 ounce, so you've got about $400 worth of gold plus a small numismatic premium (say 10%). I wouldn't have gone over $450.

I'd grade it EF40 but this coin is valued as bullion and with gold being where it is ($795/oz), I'd say you paid $100 too much.

I'd probably keep it though. I see gold at $1200/oz by the end of next year and you'll be a bit ahead at that rate.

For $581 you should be able to find an Eagle like that top tier slabbed (PCGS/NGC) in EF condition.
ANA #R3154474
Valued Member
United States
257 Posts
 Posted 11/23/2008  10:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fmtaxguy to your friends list
The average retail sales from the NGC price guide at the grade of EF40 shows at $640, and at $750 from the PGCS price guide. Those amounts, as I understand it, are average retail sales from a variety of sources, including many dealers, auctions, etc. If that is true then I am not understanding your valuation. I hope you can explain just a bit further for this newbie. The price you stated, in fact, was about the wholesale price the dealer gave me when he graded it it a VF20 or 25. I guess I am experiencing glitch in my learning curve. Anything else you could provide to clarify would be most appreciated.

The only ones I have found, top tiered slabbed, are for higher AU and MS grades. The cost of those are prohibitive to me unfortunately. $1200/oz? You really think so?
Edited by fmtaxguy
11/23/2008 10:48 pm
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 Posted 11/23/2008  10:58 pm  Show Profile   Check BH1964's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add BH1964 to your friends list
fmtaxguy,
I hope this link helps: http://completed.shop.ebay.com/item...30&_udhi=470
If you're an ebay member you can look up completed listings on $10 Gold Eagles. A lot of $10 Libs went for $440 to $470 this weekend on ebay. Heritage Auction also has completed listings you can search.

There's very little mark up on bullion. Common date pre-1933 U.S. Gold is sold as bullion plus a small premium for any numismatic value, slabbing, etc. Until you hit about AU55 in a top tier slab, there's really very little premium to add in.

A raw, common date, $10 gold eagle is bringing around $450 on ebay right now. Take a look and you'll see some decent deals. Gold is low right now.

Hang in there and keep an eye on kitco.com for spot price and don't pay more than 10% over it for common stuff. The price guides are usually high end retail values and they can't keep up with the movement in precious metals these days.
ANA #R3154474
Valued Member
United States
257 Posts
 Posted 11/24/2008  12:11 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fmtaxguy to your friends list
Thanks so much for staying with this. Your feedback and information is very, very helpful. I see what you mean about the price range. One caveat, however. None are 1853, the year that I am collecting, at present. The few on ebay for that year are relatively rather expensive.

I don't understand how a mintage of 201k, for the 1853, can be considered common, especially with the recall and melt down in the early 1930's. Any thoughts?
Edited by fmtaxguy
11/24/2008 12:17 am
Rest in Peace
United States
5375 Posts
 Posted 11/24/2008  12:19 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coinguybrian to your friends list
581 isn't too bad actually, most of the eagles I see on ebay go for around that.
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257 Posts
 Posted 11/24/2008  12:25 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fmtaxguy to your friends list
Are you also of the opinion that this coin is worth only a bit over bullion value, ShadowCreator? I still don't get the "common" designation.
Rest in Peace
United States
5375 Posts
 Posted 11/24/2008  11:59 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coinguybrian to your friends list
I mean, if you sold it on heritage, probably, but on ebay, gold coins go way over that. I've never been able to get a decent deal on gold, EVER.
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 Posted 11/24/2008  1:19 pm  Show Profile   Check BH1964's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add BH1964 to your friends list

Quote:
I don't understand how a mintage of 201k, for the 1853, can be considered common, especially with the recall and melt down in the early 1930's. Any thoughts?


Please remember that numismatic coins were excluded from the recall and melting. Your coin was 80 years old at the time of the recall so it would have been exempt. Most of the gold that was melted was coined in the 1920s & early 1930s.

Mintage of over 100,000 makes nearly any gold coin common. Many dates and Mintmarks are well under 50,000 pieces. Your coin being an 1853 does make it more valuable than say a 1906 but not by much.

Does 1853 have significance to you? If it does the premium may be justified.

Good Luck!



ANA #R3154474
Pillar of the Community
United States
6396 Posts
 Posted 11/24/2008  1:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jaobler to your friends list
Hi Fmtaxguy,

I would agree that the price was a bit high, but not outrageous. Three 1853 eagles in NGC and ICG AU-55 slabs sold recently on Heritage for $632.50, including buyer's fee. A PCGS XF-45 example sold for $488.75. You would pay extra for shipping, plus sales tax if you live in Texas or California.

Your coin has solid EF-45 detail, but might get net-graded to EF-40 due to the hits on Liberty's face. For my money it would have been worth stretching a bit more for one of those AU-55's if I wanted this date. Here's one of the NGC coins from the Heritage website:

1853-Gold-Eagle---W/O-Distractions,-If-Possible

It's well worth signing up for a free membership on Heritage. You get access to their auction archives and can easily find recent sale prices for the coins that you want.
Valued Member
United States
257 Posts
 Posted 11/24/2008  8:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fmtaxguy to your friends list
An update: I contacted the seller about the concerns to which you have all generously alerted me. As it is within his seven-day return policy, he stated he wanted me, as all of his customers, to be happy, and would promptly refund my money upon receipt of the coin.

But he also offered me the option of refunding $100 to my paypal account as an alternative since I am trying to complete an 1853 denominational collection. This would bring what I will have actually paid back in line with what most have suggested its value is, i.e., bullion plus maybe 10%. I think this ebay seller is giving ebay sellers a bad name; he truly goes above and beyond to satisfy a buyer. Something should be done!

I cannot thank you all enough for the education you are providing, and for the savings that have come as a result. As mentioned before, I appreciate your generosity of imparting knowledge, but also your generosity in helping to protect me, a total stranger, from himself in the early throes of a bumpy learning curve.
Edited by fmtaxguy
11/24/2008 8:19 pm
Bedrock of the Community
United States
10982 Posts
 Posted 11/24/2008  9:46 pm  Show Profile   Check BH1964's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add BH1964 to your friends list
Great news! I'd take the $100 and call it even.

And yes - within 18 months we'll see $1200 gold. The inflation from the trillion dollars bail-out should start kicking in by summer!
ANA #R3154474
Valued Member
United States
257 Posts
 Posted 11/25/2008  12:47 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fmtaxguy to your friends list
Thanks. I did take the $100. And I am beginning to believe you about the $1200/oz price of gold. I was amazed to watch it go back over $800 most recently.
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