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1881-H 1 Cent- Please Identify A Possible Variety And Or Error

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 Posted 09/29/2020  11:56 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add okiecoiner to your friends list
Here's one of the "football" ones:

1881-H-1-Cent--Please-Identify-A-Possible-Variety-And-Or-Error
1881-H-1-Cent--Please-Identify-A-Possible-Variety-And-Or-Error
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United States
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 Posted 11/01/2020  2:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dan-in-crystal-lake to your friends list
I've always liked this variety. Your coin, as well as okie's are the same variety with okie's being a later die state. This GR-91 shows a strong bead clash across L8-L10 with a letter clash from the tip of L9 to the vine between the leaf tip and the bead clash as shown in both of your close up shots of the clash. In each of your full reverse shots you can see a bust clash starting at the bead line just right of the H and travelling to the bead line under the first 1.

There is another, lesser known GR-91 bead clash on a different die. This one is a single bead clash like your example but only at L9 and towards L10. It is a lighter clash. There is no letter clash at L9 on this one but there is the bust clash. The die cracking on each of the dies that produced these 2 GR-91's is different.

For all of you that have a multiple GR-91's in your collection, take a closer look. You might well have 2 different varieties rather than just the 1. We almost always stop when we see the GR-91 clash. Look just a bit deeper, you might be surprised at what you have.
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 Posted 11/01/2020  3:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add papeldog to your friends list
Would this be the 3rd type you mention Dan, it is faintly doubled and hard to see but it is a single die clash starting at the edge of L-8 to L-7. The Obverse also has a die crack running through the C in Canada from the bead line to the denticle on the outer rim
1881-H-1-Cent--Please-Identify-A-Possible-Variety-And-Or-Error
1881-H-1-Cent--Please-Identify-A-Possible-Variety-And-Or-Error
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 Posted 11/01/2020  5:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dan-in-crystal-lake to your friends list

1881-H-1-Cent--Please-Identify-A-Possible-Variety-And-Or-Error

If this is the C in CANADA on the obverse, then we are talking about the same coin, yes. As with all clashes, not all coins will have them. Only 25% of the coins (that I have seen) associated with the obverse that has this die crack through the C in CANADA, have the light G-91 clash.
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 Posted 11/01/2020  5:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add papeldog to your friends list
Same one Dan.

1881-H-1-Cent--Please-Identify-A-Possible-Variety-And-Or-Error
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 Posted 11/02/2020  09:54 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dan-in-crystal-lake to your friends list
Bingo! that's what I'm talking about.
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 Posted 11/02/2020  10:44 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add okiecoiner to your friends list
Dan and Jim .... I just looked at 8 '81's with the D/C thru the C in Canada and none had the weak clash. Is it only on Obv 1a's or also on the 1a/1's?
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 Posted 11/02/2020  10:55 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dan-in-crystal-lake to your friends list
The original GR-91 that everyone is familiar with is against a 1a obverse. This additional one is against a 1a/1 obverse with the die crack in the C as shown. As I mentioned 75% of the coins I have seen with that obverse don't exhibit the GR-91 clash.
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 Posted 11/02/2020  11:21 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add papeldog to your friends list
I have 3 with the crack through the C in Canada but only 1 with the slight die clash.

Dan I also have one with slight die clash that only shows 3 dots above leaf 9 within the vine of leaf 9 and no die crack in the C
Edited by papeldog
11/02/2020 11:23 am
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 Posted 11/02/2020  11:24 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dan-in-crystal-lake to your friends list
Jim, can you give me any other markers such as die breaks on the rev and anything on the obverse such as doubling or die breaks?
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Canada
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 Posted 11/02/2020  11:52 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add papeldog to your friends list
Here is the coin, there is some doubling on the Obverse Canada the C + N and slightly doubling in Gratia + DEI also a die crack at the A in Victoria.
EDIT: I think the N in Canada might be a hit from something not doubling not sure
Pictures:


1881-H-1-Cent--Please-Identify-A-Possible-Variety-And-Or-Error
1881-H-1-Cent--Please-Identify-A-Possible-Variety-And-Or-Error
1881-H-1-Cent--Please-Identify-A-Possible-Variety-And-Or-Error
1881-H-1-Cent--Please-Identify-A-Possible-Variety-And-Or-Error
1881-H-1-Cent--Please-Identify-A-Possible-Variety-And-Or-Error
1881-H-1-Cent--Please-Identify-A-Possible-Variety-And-Or-Error
1881-H-1-Cent--Please-Identify-A-Possible-Variety-And-Or-Error
Edited by papeldog
11/02/2020 12:34 pm
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 Posted 11/02/2020  2:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dan-in-crystal-lake to your friends list
Jim, There isn't enough detail in the photos for me to determine much of anything. A photo of the N's on the Obverse, the die crack at the A in VICTORIA and the bust would help. you can skip the bust if you can tell me definitively obv 1, 1a or 1a/1.
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 Posted 11/02/2020  3:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add papeldog to your friends list
I threw the coin in a bath solution to try and get rid of some of the crud on it. I took some scans of both N's the die crack I thought I was seeing was some crud sorry for false lead.
Here are the N's Canada first then Regina.

Gratia has the best doubling on the obverse.

The bust is a 1a/1, I also think that this is the same obverse as the one with the die crack threw the C in Canada, but with no die crack


1881-H-1-Cent--Please-Identify-A-Possible-Variety-And-Or-Error
1881-H-1-Cent--Please-Identify-A-Possible-Variety-And-Or-Error
Edited by papeldog
11/02/2020 4:14 pm
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 Posted 11/03/2020  09:50 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dan-in-crystal-lake to your friends list
Jim, I believe you are correct about the same obverse as the other one you have. About 20% of the coins I've seen of this obverse are in DS-0 meaning that there are no die cracks or impairments on the die from use. DS-1 through DS-5 has the radial crack at the C in CANADA as you have seen. There will be doubling evident on the serifs of DEI and GRATIA as well as REGI. Most evident in GRATIA. The combination of markers that will identify this variety are the thick bottom O in VICTORIA in conjunction with the doubling on the second A in GRATIA and the N in CANADA which is a slight N/N showing at the upper left with the left stand flaring wider at the bottom.
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 Posted 11/03/2020  09:56 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add okiecoiner to your friends list
Dan ... all those years that you took off away from Vicky's certainly didn't affect your knowledge base. Welcome back, old buddy.
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