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Pick The Counterfeit

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Bedrock of the Community
United States
36746 Posts
 Posted 07/03/2021  12:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add IndianGoldEagle to your friends list
#2, that round rimmed edge always screams "Made in China". Eagle's feathers look crude, lettering mushy. Surface color.
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United States
992 Posts
 Posted 07/03/2021  1:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add suipakpaikungfu to your friends list
I'm going with the middle one.
Valued Member
Japan
294 Posts
 Posted 07/03/2021  2:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Stephen-P to your friends list
It has to be the middle one. The details (especially the denticles and banner) are in-and-out, flat then sharp. Way too inconsistent. I think it was Condor that coined the term "vampire dies" and it looks to be the case here.
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United States
392 Posts
 Posted 07/03/2021  4:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Parnelli917 to your friends list
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 Posted 07/03/2021  4:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add GrapeCollects to your friends list
Middle, seems everyone else is in agreement.
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United States
940 Posts
 Posted 07/03/2021  4:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Classic Coins to your friends list
The middle one.

The eye of the eagle isn't formed right.
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United States
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 Posted 07/03/2021  9:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mrwhatisit to your friends list
If I were to guess the fakey one, id choose the middle
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United States
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 Posted 07/03/2021  10:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Slider23 to your friends list
As most of you noted, the middle coin is the counterfeit. The reverse has a mixture of type 1 and type 2 features that do not exist on any genuine Trade dollars. The coin has other issues as were pointed out in the thread. Below is a photo of the obverse. NGC did not certify this coin as I put it into a crack-out holder.

Pick-The-Counterfeit
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188660 Posts
Pillar of the Community
United States
4680 Posts
 Posted 07/04/2021  01:21 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ty2020b to your friends list
And the obverse is even more obvious!

And since we weren't supposed to list reasons initially.

Red flags/giveaways for me were:
-Overall devices, primarily the eagle, neck feathers were the first offender my eyes were drawn to.. just wrong!

-the raised spot above the N in UNITED

-Dentils are off, usually problematic on fakes/counterfeits.

- overall lettering is inconsistent, but my eye was drawn to the A in Trade. All the left serifs in all the A's are incorrect.
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United States
3 Posts
 Posted 07/05/2021  04:06 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Gringo to your friends list
Jbuck, thank you for the welcome message! (The system doesn't allow me to post this to you privately).

Slider23, I really enjoyed this post and your educational challenge to pick the fake. I clearly didn't pick the correct fake, and honestly it was so clear to me that the top coin was the fake, I feel pretty stupid that I was so absolutely convinced I had it correct, when I didn't.
Now I'm trying to learn why. I'm hoping you will share a little time to go over a couple of the discrepancies I see between the top coin and the two lower coins.
My first glance at the three coins, the middle coin was the obvious fake.... until I started really studying the differences.

1st - The "teeth" that run along the outside perimeter. (Yeah, I know they probably have a technical name, but I haven't learned that yet). The top coins parameter "teeth" are slightly larger than the two bottom coins. So I counted them. The top has only 177 teeth, the two bottom coins both have 183.

2nd - The wing on the left side: The top coin is the only coin where the wing touches the 2nd arrow. The mid and bottom coin aren't touching the 2nd arrow.

3rd - The feather on the right side, closest to the leafs; The top coin is the only one where the feather stops short. The other two coins show this feather going all the way to the leaves.

4th - The birds hand on the right side of the coin: On the mid and bottom he clearly has two twigs. On the top, there is clearly only one.

5th - The stem of the branch in the birds hand (Right side of the coin): The top coin, the branch is clearly below the arrows. The mid and bottom coin the branch is above the arrows.

My list goes on... I won't waste your time with all of the differences I noted.

I've convinced myself that the two bottom coins match and leave the top coin as the odd one out. I understand that the coins will wear down, but the image isn't going to change positions, like the additional teeth or the wing touching the 2nd arrow. These are pretty significant differences I think.
What is it I'm seeing? Are some of these differences questionable?
I look forward any feedback you can offer here.

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 Posted 07/06/2021  12:59 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list

Quote:
Jbuck, thank you for the welcome message! (The system doesn't allow me to post this to you privately).
No problem. Yeah, you must be a member for a while before you can do private messages (email).
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United States
4469 Posts
 Posted 07/06/2021  09:14 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Slider23 to your friends list

Quote:
1st - The "teeth" that run along the outside perimeter. (Yeah, I know they probably have a technical name, but I haven't learned that yet). The top coins parameter "teeth" are slightly larger than the two bottom coins. So I counted them. The top has only 177 teeth, the two bottom coins both have 183.

2nd - The wing on the left side: The top coin is the only coin where the wing touches the 2nd arrow. The mid and bottom coin aren't touching the 2nd arrow.

3rd - The feather on the right side, closest to the leafs; The top coin is the only one where the feather stops short. The other two coins show this feather going all the way to the leaves.

4th - The birds hand on the right side of the coin: On the mid and bottom he clearly has two twigs. On the top, there is clearly only one.

5th - The stem of the branch in the birds hand (Right side of the coin): The top coin, the branch is clearly below the arrows. The mid and bottom coin the branch is above the arrows.


The Trade dollar had a design change in 1875 that is called type 2 for both the obverse and reverse. A mixture of type 1 and type 2 can be found on the years 1875 and 1876. Pre 1875 is all type 1 and 1877 and after is all type 2. The differences you note are the difference between type 1 and type 2. The top coin is a 1875 S with a type 2 reverse. The bottom coin is 1875 CC type 1 reverse. The counterfeit has a mixture of type 1 and type 2 on the reverse that never happened at the mint.

The two twigs you note is a stem and a berry in the eagle's claw that was omitted in the type 2 design.

The teeth are called denticles. I was not aware that the number of denticles changed between type 1 and type 2, but I am sure that is why there is a difference.


Bedrock of the Community
United States
10284 Posts
 Posted 07/06/2021  11:40 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TNG to your friends list
I did post my reasons in white text under my comment "Middle for me".
http://goccf.com/t/403369#3450071


Quote:
Lack of claw details. Weak and misshapen serifs. Head feathers {which would be white on actual bald eagle) are different and look more like lines. Surface of middle one does not look like genuine US silver coins.
Denticles look shorter and somewhat beaded rather than piano key-like.
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United States
3 Posts
 Posted 07/06/2021  12:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Gringo to your friends list
Slider23, Thank you sincerely for taking time to reply to my questions. It appears as if I may not be completely losing my faculties just yet after all.
This was HUGELY helpful to me. (And I learned about denticles).... sounds a lot like dentures... which look a lot like teeth. :-)

This was fun and definitely educational for me. Thank You!!!
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