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How Cleaning Affects Value And Eye Appeal

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Pillar of the Community
United States
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 Posted 08/23/2021  11:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ty2020b to your friends list
Why not post a few pics? Depending on the extent of the ED, you may have some luck improving the aesthetics with acetone or xylene as hfjacinto said, though it will likely stay a problem coin. If those two solvents don't work, I'm in the "leave it be" group. "Bright and shiny" doesn't add any value to a problematic coin, and will likely make it worse.
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 Posted 08/23/2021  11:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Yokozuna to your friends list
to the CCF!

My Two Cents worth...
Cleaning is not something you want to do, even on coins that are worthless. It's always the responsibility of a numismatist to "Do no harm" to the coins we collect, as we are the custodians of these coins for future generation of collectors. The coin you clean today may happen to be the only example of that coin in 1000 years.

Now, on the lighter side...
How-Cleaning-Affects-Value-And-Eye-Appeal
ANA ID: 3203813 - CONECA ID: N-5637 Clean a coin that may be worth collecting? Please DON'T! When in doubt, leave it dirty!!
How-Cleaning-Affects-Value-And-Eye-Appeal


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United States
56855 Posts
 Posted 08/24/2021  04:32 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list
Be extra careful with xylene. It is not skin friendly.
John1
Edited by John1
08/24/2021 04:32 am
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 Posted 08/24/2021  06:31 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kenwright396 to your friends list
with Yokozuna, don't do it.
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Canada
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 Posted 08/24/2021  06:47 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add oriole to your friends list
"Cleaning" is not a precise term in numismatics. A dip in acetone could be considered cleaning (that's OK), so could a scrub with abrasive bathroom cleaner (very bad). You really need to show us the item and tell us what you want to do to it. Professional coins grading companies can "conserve" coins, which in my mind is a safe way to clean coins and improve their appearance.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
19158 Posts
 Posted 08/24/2021  07:50 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ijn1944 to your friends list
A photo or two--large and sharp--of the subject coin may reveal something interesting.
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16830 Posts
 Posted 08/24/2021  7:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list
Let's post some before and after pictures of coin that I have treated.

Case 1: A Tasmanian copper tradesman token I experimented with to try to remove bright green "bronze disease" corrosion.
Before (from its appearance it seems a previous owner attempted but ultimately failed to remove the bronze disease):
How-Cleaning-Affects-Value-And-Eye-Appeal How-Cleaning-Affects-Value-And-Eye-Appeal

After (numerous cleaning attempts which did nothing, finally with concentrated ammonia):
How-Cleaning-Affects-Value-And-Eye-Appeal How-Cleaning-Affects-Value-And-Eye-Appeal

Now, which of these coins would you rather have? Personally, I think it's subjective. The green is ugly, but so is the orange pitting. The coin has since retoned to a more appeasing brown, but of course the moon-crater pitting remains.

In terms of resale value, has my cleaning made things better, or worse? I don't think there's actually much difference - I wouldn't say I have improved it to the point where I've increased its value.

Now let's look at case 2. This one is a debased-silver coin (50% silver), so it stood a better chance at surviving a harsh cleaning.

Before (it appears to be a metal detecting find):
How-Cleaning-Affects-Value-And-Eye-Appeal

After (1 week soak in EDTA solution):
How-Cleaning-Affects-Value-And-Eye-Appeal

Now, I don't think anyone can argue against that this coin has undergone a positive transformation, from "are you sure that's a coin, it looks like a rock" to "yeah, it's got a couple of issues on the obverse, but it's still in pretty good condition". This treatment has certainly "added value".

Finally, the other thing to consider when "Adding value" is the cost of the treatment itself. Cleaning chemicals aren't free, and your time isn't free either. You'd want to be reasonably sure of recouping the cost not only of the original corroded coin, but of the time and chemicals you've put in into trying to improve it.

Conclusion: do it for scientific curiosity, or do it in the spirit of trying to "rescue" a coin that would otherwise be condemned for scrap metal. But don't do it for profit; it's a gamble on whether or not you will actually recoup your money.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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 Posted 08/24/2021  8:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ty2020b to your friends list
Impressive results on that florin @Sap, especially that reverse. Wouldn't have even guessed it to be the same coin!
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 Posted 08/24/2021  9:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Oldfordman to your friends list
Nice job on the florin!
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 Posted 08/24/2021  10:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add just carl to your friends list
Just remember that the coin is yours so do with it as you wish. Only remember to that you may want to sell it someday.
Bedrock of the Community
Australia
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 Posted 08/24/2021  11:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list
Same applies with ancient coins that have been recovered from burial. It is always going to be a gamble, but in most cases, the professional museum curators that clean them,
have learned that in most cases, the gamble will pay off.
Professional experience in this sort of cleaning and preservation is essential.

Cleaning and preservation of detector finds of modern coins is a good place to gain that experience.
Valued Member
United States
292 Posts
 Posted 08/25/2021  09:06 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add EDM to your friends list
Just a word of caution with Xylene: Do it outside or under a vent hood. It has a very low vapor pressure and will quickly fume the room and the building you're in. The fumes are also considered toxic.
Valued Member
United States
292 Posts
 Posted 08/29/2021  8:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add EDM to your friends list
Does EDTA damage the original surface of a coin compared to acid "dips"?
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Australia
16830 Posts
 Posted 08/29/2021  11:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list
Neutral EDTA (I use disodium EDTA buffered to pH 7.0) won't attack metal or metal oxides or sulfides, only corrosion (metal carbonates, hydroxides, chlorides, etc). It will remove the "metal" that's in the corrosion.

EDTA and similar chelating agents are thus milder than direct acid dips, wheich tend to remove all corrosion byproducts incluing oxides and sulfides, and begin to attack the metal itself. For corroded coins, the "original surface" at the corrosion points is gone, corroded away, but the surrounding area might still be worth saving.

I've found that for a heavily oxidized bronze/copper coin left soaking in EDTA for too long, the oxide layer remains in place, but is weakened and easily dislodged (eg by touching or wiping the surface with fingers). Keeping the "original surface" of the uncorroded areas of copper/bronze coins requires patience and skill. You can't use EDTA as a "magic bath" that makes the corrosion go away but leaves the remaining surface completely undamaged.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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United States
292 Posts
 Posted 08/30/2021  08:39 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add EDM to your friends list
Thankyou.
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