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 Replies: 80 / Views: 8,963 |
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Valued Member
United States
303 Posts |
Quote:
What really puzzels me is why haven't the Chinese made millions of those and in PCGS slabs too? I'd buy about 10 if cheap enough. not all Chinese are counterfeiters :( |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3098 Posts |
Quote:
not all Chinese are counterfeiters :( Why the unhappy face?  Am I a counterfeiter?  The problem is that most US coins and more so slabbed coins are exported directly to the US. In China, almost no one collects old US coins and even less collect slabbed coins. Thus, because of the low demand, they don't press out that many, and instead focus on Pandas, old Chinese coins, etc that can be sold quickly and to a large market domestically. |
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Valued Member
United States
303 Posts |
I don't understand why you are calling yourself a counterfeiter, as I don't get the connection. I don't know you, so I will assume people are good initially and you do not make counterfeits. I know what those counterfeiters and scammers are doing (of course making fakes, right?). I see topics on fake coins and fake coin auctions on ebay (I think ebay is a big cause of this problem) everyday. Yes a lot of people collect coins from which nationality they reside in. A majority of US collectors collect US coins. In the UK, English coins. I too collect US coins, but I have started to collect the Republic coins of China and Taiwan on the side. I was saying that he said "the Chinese", does he mean everybody in China and others around the world of Chinese decent? I said "not all Chinese", since there are some who are legitimate people out there. There are only a few who are using mass producing machines to churn out these coins everyday. The main source of these coins come from China, but there are other countries where there are pockets of counterfeiting rings out there. But I am probably making a big deal out of this anyways. I have seen some "resentment" towards the Chinese, although it is hard to identify tone when reading some threads. Person A writes an article on a thread about the Chinese counterfeiters. He uses proper grammar and make sure everything is correct... except every time he types "Chinese" he types it "chinese" or misspells it. Or maybe I just think too much of it. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts |
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not all Chinese are counterfeiters :(
No one said they were. Try to remember that at one time almost the entire world thought everyone in Chicago walked around with a machine gun. All the people in Chicago had names that ended with an a or o and were Italians. Booze was being made in all garages. Ever see that series "The Untouchables"? People just like to tell stories. I'm sure there are a few Chinese that don't make our money. Maybe even more than a few.  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3294 Posts |
With 1.3 billion people, you are bound to have a few bad apples. Not saying they are representative, but the counterfeiters give the rest of the people of China a bad reputation.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts |
Quote:
With 1.3 billion people, you are bound to have a few bad apples. Not saying they are representative, but the counterfeiters give the rest of the people of China a bad reputation.
Not sure about that either. Many of their counterfeits are really great. Takes talen for that. Some time back a security company hired some criminals to show them how to break into houses and cars. They only hired the best. They learned a lot from those professional criminals. Based on this I would think our government would find those counterfeiters in china, hire them to make our coins, Problems solved.  Naturally PCGS could hire them to make slabs too. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10284 Posts |
I would like to have a 1913 fake nickel that looked like those shown.
Making them is not cool but owning one would be neat if it were a good fake and I knew what it was in the first place.
I once bought an old reale of eight that was a counterfeit at an auction. It was cast. I got it cheap but thought it was reale ( excuse the pun ) for awhile until a fellow collector pointed out the flaws. I got my money back by going to the dealer that consigned them at auction. Now I kinda wish I kept it for educational purposes.
I think I only paid like 15 dollars for it but that was a lot of money back then.
Edited by TNG
03/04/2009 8:06 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2589 Posts |
hmm, id say contemporary fake
the only feasible thing I can see beyond the five currently known would be some kind of specimen strike, test strike, or pattern to test out the dies, but even if thos were made they were most likely destroyed shortly thereafter.
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Valued Member
United States
436 Posts |
Is it just me, or does anyone else see the obvious peen shaped metal bits around that three, constituting a metal buildup which was then shaped?  I am new, but spotted this immediately, and this would explain the metalurgical testing, as anyone can get, say, a '12 and take some metal from it for building up. I realize this is an old thread, but this just jumped out at me, and I had to say something. |
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New Member
United States
14 Posts |
I took this coin to Sarasota at the NGC headquarter and have this coin examined by an expert named Rick. The expert analysis concluded that the 3 on the 1913 is pasted. The expert analysis also determined that the coin is a real nickel, with 191 on 1913 is real, but the 3 was pasted. With the expert analysis, this eliminate the possibilities that the coin is minted in China, or struck from other type of metal or other else. The question to answer now is focused on the 3 as the expert has observed if it is really pasted or not... does this make sense to every one following this topic?
To fully confirm if the 3 on the 1913 is pasted, I took this coin to the forensic metallurgical engineer and put the coin under extensive examination. The coin is throughly examined by 3 type of forensic microscopy including SEM. The result did not show a slightest sign of tampering or any type altering on the 3 of the 1913 or any part of the coin. The result did not show any sign that the 3 was pasted. The metal composition analysis did not show any trace of other type of mineral found, but 75% copper and 25% nickel. No other mineral shows to indicate that the 3 was pasted. The mineral observed on the coin are corrosion around the 3 consistent on 191 numbers. I do not arque about the established understanding of the community on the existence of only five of the LH13 coin, but there are answer that probably need to be questioned. I'm here at the Worlds Money Fair in LA and have this coin looked at by an expert Dave Lange from the NGC. Dave cannot make any suggestion more so determination to the authenticity of the coin without the proper equipment needed use to examine the coin. I have shown this coin to some vendors here at the show, and so far not one has observed that the 3 on the coin is pasted. Also, none has yet told me that there are alteration done to the coin. One thing each of the vendor will say though-that the coin is faked even "before" looking at the coin on their eye loop, and only to say that this is the perfect fake that they have seen. I guess there is really a perfect fake, but what does that really mean?
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Valued Member
United States
436 Posts |
Once again, I can see the melt drips around the three, and I am a newbie! Obviously, this three was either pasted or built up in place from melted metal, maybe scavenged from another coin. I have to agree with the opinion that it's been altered, there is no other conclusion to make, IMHO.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1882 Posts |
Wow, this thread again.
JS, after the show, can you post a picture of the *entire* date of your coin? A good, up-close picture with a camera (not a pic from a scope).
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Valued Member
United States
317 Posts |
man, this thread just keeps rising from the dead!!
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New Member
United States
14 Posts |
I have the coin submitted to NGC, so I guess it's them that will have the decision of the argument going on here with the coin.
I will post the picture here of the slab and whatever information that may come when I get the coin back.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1801 Posts |
js13977, I took the photos of your coin that you posted with me today, compared it to 3 of the 5 known 1913s which I was viewing in person (not photos) and am sorry to say, your coin doesn't share the same date configuration with them. So many nuances that are different. Sorry but IMHO, your coin is a fake, plain and simple.
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Posted 03/03/2009 12:11 am
