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 Replies: 21 / Views: 1,944 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3848 Posts |
You really trust this seller if you only have these photos and a "confederate issue" title! Hopefully the description is accurate...  Looking forward to in hand photos! Suffering from bust half fever. Want to learn how to attribute early half dollars by die variety? Click Here: http://goccf.com/t/434955Shoot me a PM if you are looking to sell bust halves. |
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Bedrock of the Community
 United States
11898 Posts |
Seller didn't advertise it as a confederate issue. That was me.  IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.com |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2282 Posts |
numismatic student is more like the professor at this point.
You realize when you know how to think, it empowers you far beyond those who know only what to think.
-Neil deGrasse Tyson
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Pillar of the Community
United States
824 Posts |
Not that I don't trust your knowledge that this is a Confederate issue but to me it looks like the reverse is a Reverse C which would make it either W-3 or W-4 which are both Louisiana die marriages. Do you have the coin in hand? Which CSA die marriage do you believe it is? Can you provide closer sharper images?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3848 Posts |
I would also like to know the diagnostics that you see that make this a CSA issue.
If you bought this as a non CSA issue, then that would be one heck of a cherrypick! CSA 1861's have significant premiums.
Suffering from bust half fever. Want to learn how to attribute early half dollars by die variety? Click Here: http://goccf.com/t/434955Shoot me a PM if you are looking to sell bust halves. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11898 Posts |
@Heymikep - I don't have the coin in hand so no further images. All 12 die marriages were used to produce the Federal, Louisiana and CSA coins so there are no specific CSA die marriages. Some of these 12 die pairs developed cracks and other markers that were documented to have occurred after the CSA takeover of the no mint and those late stage impressions from the same 12 die pairs are attributed to the CSA. Not sure which die pair produced this coin. I think instead of die pair, you meant to ask which CSA die state do I think produced this coin. The die state is not how I attributed this coin, but it was using other scholarship. IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.comEdited by numismatic student
11/19/2021 8:38 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11898 Posts |
Updated the original post with some answers to your questions.
IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.com |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
824 Posts |
Numismaticstudent, I think you need to change your name! You are no longer a student but a teacher. I would love to see the full pic of this coin in its slab. You must have really won the lottery a few times didn't you? I do have a question, is there a die line running from the upper right serif inside the N in United down through the U and then to the tip of the wing? Hard to see in your images but when you get the coin in hand if you could let me know I appreciate it. Here is a little excerpt from Bill Bugert latest book "A Register of Seated Liberty half dollars New Orleans" Volume IV. He references Randy Wiley and his publishing's on the New Orleans Mint and the 15 die marriage sequences. He does not mention Specimans or Proofs. For many good reasons, this date is one of the most popular in the Liberty Seated half dollar series. Even before Randy Wiley published his stunning award winning research efforts for this date2, it was historically popular for the three minting authorities; i.e., the United States of America, the State of Louisiana, and the Confederate States of America. With his articles, he exponentially increased interest and demand for coins of this date. Until a few years ago, with the exception of the 1861-O CSA die crack, there was no absolute method of determining approximately when and under whose authority an 1861-O half dollar was minted, an important question to many. Essentially, Randy researched and armed himself with three vital pieces of information, linked them to the three minting authorities, and produced a very convincing argument for 1861-O half dollars. Randy's analysis is very lengthy and thorough and I will not duplicate it here; I will summarize his findings and attempt to simplify the die identification process. 1. With access to two large hoards of 1861-O half dollars, Randy accurately determined an emission sequence for all the 1861-O die marriages (unlike most other dates in the Liberty Seated half dollar series, all dies are linked together and this information is critical to the analysis). 2. From knowledge of the other dates of this period, he suggested an average die usage. 3. He exploited the known mintage figures by minting authority and applied them to the die marriages. Edited by Heymikep
11/19/2021 11:55 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
824 Posts |
I just found this from the NGC website,
Estimates of the number of survivors are in the four the five range, though Walter Breen reported as many as six. His figure is now considered to include some duplication, which is understandable given the poor or non-existant photographs in catalogs published before the 1970s. The obverse die is a clear match for Bugert's Number 2, but the reverse is not as easily attributed. He describes the W-04 marriages (Obv 2 and Rev C) as the one which made the specimen coins.
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Bedrock of the Community
 United States
18687 Posts |
the coin appears to be a proof with that strike and fields. if this is truly a CSA stamp then winner winner chicken dinner. either way its a beautiful coin. I'm assuming the coin is not slabbed which is interesting that it would have survived this long and not. will you be getting it attributed?
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11898 Posts |
The coin is slabbed.
IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.com |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1776 Posts |
Quote:
I was not aware coins struck from another die pair could be traced to this period. Me either. I thought the crack at the head was the key diagnostic. Interesting. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
9792 Posts |
Sure looks like a Prooflike example though PCGS has only graded a single one. Stack's/Bowers has a details AU coming up for sale: https://auctions.stacksbowers.com/l...cleaned-PCGSI can't really get a good grade with photos like this, from what I do see I'm only guessing, MS64 and should be PL but it doesn't match the lone PCGS 63PL if it's raw then 64 PL or NGC? They have 4 MS64PL listed. Better photos I could go a lot higher, but I think it's a PL from what I see. NGC also has a good write up on the CSA struck 1861-O half dollars in their US Coin Explorer: https://www.NGCcoin.com/coin-explor...61-o-50c-ms/"Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013! ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2¢ variety collector. See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440Edited by westcoin
11/22/2021 01:38 am
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11898 Posts |
Westcoin, have you read the article I linked in the first post?
IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.com |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11898 Posts |
This is the first and only specimen strike 1861-O half dollar that ICG has graded. I think the coin looks like a proof with the cream colored surface as illustrated below. There is one NGC PF63 graded 1861-O Branch Mint Proof. It was owned by the DuPont family of Delaware and on display at the Louisina State Museum at the old New Orleans Mint facility. There are also about 4 or 5 NGC graded Specimen strike 1861-O halves that we purportedly minted at the special striking session celebrating Jefferson Davis ascent to President of the Confederacy. The coin was advertised as a blue-toned coin and it arrived not as advertised so I sent it back to the seller. The DuPont Proof63 is being offered for $600,000 and an NGC SP63 example is currently offered for $200,000 so if this is indeed one of the proofs from that striking, I may have made a big mistake.    IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.com |
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Posted 11/19/2021 6:38 pm
