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Newbie Question: What Are You Looking For When You Photograph A Coin?

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 Posted 12/10/2021  9:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mjkzz to your friends list
I think I got what luster is, thanks to @coinphotofan It is that radial shiny/dark pattern.


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 Posted 12/10/2021  9:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mrwhatisit to your friends list
I'll add a coin that has uncirculated cartwheel luster made out of zinc(!) and say I angled the shot just right to try to get the light good. This was also taken on my phone camera


FYI, this is a Bulgaria 1917 10 stotinki.
Edited by mrwhatisit
12/10/2021 9:35 pm
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 Posted 12/10/2021  9:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mjkzz to your friends list
right, @mrwhatisit, I finally got it

And here is 5x magnification of those patterns causing luster. But not all coins will have it, even new, I guess due to different strike process.




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 Posted 12/11/2021  12:52 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coinphotofan to your friends list

Quote:
And here is 5x magnification of those patterns causing luster. But not all coins will have it, even new, I guess due to different strike process.


Proof coins do not have such flow lines. The field should be mirror like. (But they occasionally do have a few flow lines, if the working dies are not polished in time.) For business strikes, the "proof-like" coins, i.e., those pressed with newly polished dies, have very few flow lines. As the dies start to wear, more flow lines will show up and luster bands will develop. The initial luster bands are narrow and bright. Coins with such luster bands are appealing to collectors. With more wear on the dies, flow lines become longer and wider, and the reflected luster bands become dull and wide. So it is important to use a narrow light source at a low angle, to show luster bands properly.
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 Posted 12/11/2021  12:59 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mjkzz to your friends list
thanks @coinphotofan.
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 Posted 12/11/2021  02:02 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coinphotofan to your friends list
Here is a picture of flow lines on a Chinese PROOF coin. A retired expert from the mint admitted that they had cut the corner in preparing the dies for this coin.

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 Posted 12/11/2021  05:42 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mjkzz to your friends list
thanks for another example. I think I now have a good grasp about what luster is

I do not think all coins have luster, for example, this one does not seem to have it, it does have anti-counterfeit marks.

Another questions from a newbie like me is if details matter much? Here is a 2x image of Year of Dog coin, lots of details, does it matter to coin people?

8081x8081 Images Here
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 Posted 12/11/2021  12:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coinphotofan to your friends list

Quote:
Another questions from a newbie like me is if details matter much? Here is a 2x image of Year of Dog coin, lots of details, does it matter to coin people?


Maybe you are new to coin collection, but your photo skills are those of an expert.

People take coin pictures for different purposes, for presentation/enjoyment, for sale, for finding out varieties, for identifying fakes, for studying minting technologies, etc. Details are crucially important in some of these areas. You can visit vamworld.com to check out the pictures of various Morgan/Peace dollar varieties. There details are the key.
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 Posted 12/11/2021  12:45 pm  Show Profile   Check Zurie's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Zurie to your friends list
I agree, your images are outstanding. Getting a tack sharp image is always important, but for some purposes, like selling coins for example, focus stacking is probably overkill. For uncirculated coins, getting an accurate depiction of luster, color, and brightness are just as important.
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 Posted 12/11/2021  4:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mjkzz to your friends list
thanks coinphotofan and Zurie, yes, I am "brand new" though coin collection was a hobby when I was a kid, but it never became real thing.

It is tough to get luster image via focus stacking, I will find a new lighting method for that. Sure, color accuracy is very important, I think I need a calibrated monitor, just to view it. Currently, even my two monitors do not agree on color
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 Posted 12/11/2021  9:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rmpsrpms to your friends list
Luster depends mostly on lighting. Typically, having lights at 45-60 degree angle vs horizontal will produce the best luster. Above 60 degrees luster starts to diminish, and of course at 90-deg (ie axial) it is completely gone as we've been discussing. I prefer high angle lighting as it brings the colors out on toned coins, so I usually have to find an angle that is a compromise between showing color and luster, and this is usually 75-80 degrees.

I wouldn't worry about monitor calibration. Just make sure your colors are accurate with proper white balancing. You never know who will view the image or the quality of their monitor, so best is just to make the image technically accurate.
Contact me for photographic equipment or visit my home page at:
http://macrocoins.com
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 Posted 12/11/2021  10:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mjkzz to your friends list
thanks rmpsrpms, but I do think I need a calibrated monitor as I use all kind of lights and being able to match what is on my monitor to real thing is important.
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 Posted 12/13/2021  1:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rmpsrpms to your friends list
Problem is, if you start adjusting color to try and match what you see in-hand, you run into a few problems. First, very few monitors can be calibrated well, so you will only be able to get within a certain accuracy window. Second, even if your monitor is perfectly calibrated, human visual memory is not particularly good. To compare color, you must view in exactly the same lighting as you took the photo, and then compare that to what you see on the monitor. The accuracy of this process is not very high. And finally, if you go messing around with color, and assuming you did an accurate white balance, you are actually making the color inaccurate according to the factors mentioned above. Most accurate is objective white balance, and if you shift away from that due to perception of color on your monitor, it is guaranteed to be wrong.
Contact me for photographic equipment or visit my home page at:
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 Posted 12/13/2021  6:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mjkzz to your friends list
oh, I am not saying WB is not important, what I am saying, WB will get you there but with calibrated monitor, it gets you there even better (to match clients' expection). There are people who are very sensitive to color tones, there are published color tone booklets. Even me, not a colorist, I sometimes have trouble with which editing I should use -- my two monitors shows slightly different color/contrast. Having a calibrated monitor, I think I can put a tone booklet on the monitor and compare.
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 Posted 12/15/2021  11:57 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rmpsrpms to your friends list
I am not disagreeing that having a calibrated monitor is a good thing. What I am saying is if you adjust your images based on your calibrated monitor, you are skewing the color away from reality, assuming you did a decent job of white balancing. When your client gets the image, it won't be as accurate as if you just used white balance, and if her monitor is not calibrated, with worst case a shift in opposite direction of your adjustments, the color may appear way off.
Contact me for photographic equipment or visit my home page at:
http://macrocoins.com
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