1935-S Lincoln Wheat Cent With Thick S?

vud091 - I didn't make the rules as to what's collectible. The market did. I research and know the market, and I research and know the minting process and what it's capable of. I don't even collect coins - I research them and keep a reference set to refer to when I need to...otherwise I wouldn't even have that. The 'collection' to which I refer is this reference set that I use for photography in books and otherwise.

I tell people what they post here is worthless when it is. I tell people here what they have is valuable when it is. It's not a matter of it fitting into what I collect, it's a matter of it being either valuable or not. Simple as that.

If my posts don't help you because I am not descriptive enough, simply ask and I can elaborate. I have no problem with that. If my posts don't help you because the coins you have found and posted here don't have value, then I don't know how I could better help. I cannot make valueless coins valuable. All I can do is report on what's what, and I do it with precise accuracy. In other words, I don't answer when I don't know, and always answer when I do know.

If you tell me to skip your posts because you don't like HOW I answer, we can work on that...but if you tell me to skip your posts because you don't like WHAT I answer, then there's no solution other than for me to cease assisting you where I remember it's you. Most of the time I don't look at WHO posted the coin, I respond to the question and the coin - not to the person.

I understand where both Chuck and vud091 are coming from.

Chuck is trying to teach us about what really is "worth" keeping or "worth" letting go. Think of it this way: anything in the world is "collectible". Whether it be old stock certificates, doorknobs, swizzle sticks, discarded beer can pull tabs, or the hobby that we here choose; the "hobby of kings", coins. But even within the scope of the coin hobby there are items people of little means can collect. There are many people, including a few that I know, that collect damaged coins. One of the people that I know does it knowing that most of his collection truly is "junk", but he likes the way some of the pieces look when they have been altered. He knows the hobby well enough to know that intrinsically the collection is worthless (except for face value) but him and his family live on a very strict budget, and even though he knows if he devoted enough time to bank roll hunting he could find some valuable coins over time, he simply does not have the time! He looks through something like 5-10 rolls of cents and nickels per week, and that is all he has time for with two jobs and three kids.

In almost every roll you open from your local bank you can find examples that would fit into the collection of my friend. He has close to 1000 coins, and he is actually proud of his collection. Which he should be! Just like the individual somewhere that collects interesting looking rocks from the local beach or different types of coat hangers is proud of theirs. They won't be filling their gas tank when they try to sell what they have, but that isn;t the point. At least they are collecting something, and perhaps the day will come when they have the time and the money to turn their attention to collecting something that might have value in the future. I think that is more the angle that vud091 is coming from.

BUT.....

Most of the people on here (if probably not all) would like to think that what they have found is valuable. And that is where Chuck comes in. He wants to make sure that we know that that Lincoln we just pulled out of a roll with the shelf-like doubling showing on just a small portion of the obverse lettering is caused by the coin press ejecting the coin, and really doesn't have value as a "rare" coin variety. If everything that we found that looked odd as far as coins in a bank roll were concerned were valuable, we all here would have yachts in the Gulf of Mexico! Unless there is a ridiculous demand for a certain relatively common item, one rule almost always holds true: Valuable things, especially when it comes to coins, are rare! Nobody is going to pull a Doubled Die out of every bank roll! You can search for years and NEVER find a valuable Doubled Die in circulation. Based on what I have read here (somebody correct me if I am wrong) but Bill of FoundInRolls (who if you have ever checked his link located in his posts to see photos of what he has Found In Rolls you know he has found some ASTOUNDING stuff!) has never found an 1984 Doubled Die LMC! And I believe that recently Chuck just found his first 2000 Wide AM Cent! Folks, rare and valuable coins are just that; rare and valuable! Don't be offended if Chuck tells you what you have is of no value; 99 out of 100 of the things we find in rolls that some of us think have value have heard the same thing from him when we post photos on here! Having read thousands of posts, I can also assure you that Chuck will be the first to congratulate you when you DO have something! It feels good to hear that!

So, yes, I agree that Chuck can come across as harsh at times. When I first started posting here a little more than a year ago I thought that he was actually pretty arrogant! But I came to realize something very quickly. I was learning a treasure trove about this hobby on this Forum, and nobody was teaching me more than Chuck! Now every time I check into the Forum I seek out any and all of his expertise, and other than this Forum I spend more time on coppercoins.com than any other site. Try to look beyond him telling you things are "junk" and/or "worthless" when you post an photo of a coin asking for advice. He is only trying to teach you!

That's why there are teachers here - to try to make this "something" one of the areas people are knowledgeable about.

vud901, you're a dad, right? (of 6, even!) If you saw one of your children continue to make the same mistake on all of their math homework, what would you do? Not say anything and let another day of not understanding go by, or try to show them the correct method? And if they didn't quite get it the first time, would you simply sit back and say "oh well", or would you try again?

Math is a skill you will need in life - numismatics is a skill you will need if you want to be a numismatist.

Collect everything you like, sure. Errors, varieties, rarities, die cracks, it does not matter. But as long as you understand what it is you are collecting, I think the teachers will be happy and so will you.

vud091 - A deeper mintmark punch than what would be considered normal isn't uncommon. It is possible that a die chip inside the mintmark could have helped fill it in. That also is not unusual. The coin seems to show rather strong evidence of eject doubling...which also in itself is not unusual. Eject doubling happens when the coin sticks to the die when it is being ejected, and the design gets smeared in one direction - this time to the north, or top of the design. It is also possible that die wear played a role in the abnormality of the coin - die wear is very normal, and is characterized by soft, mushy design elements.

None of these things are categorized as 'errors' and certainly none of them constitute a 'variety', which is either an intended design difference (a pure variety) or doubling in the design on the coin (a die variety). Given that, and given the fact that there are many examples out there such as yours, it's not something that most people, including error and variety collectors, would keep out for their collections as something of value.

Better?

I hope coppercoins continues to respond the way he does. I want to know the value, why the coin is collectible or not. I've read his responses on this thread and can't find where he has said anyone is stupid.

Coppercoins can't be the grumpy old man of the forum - he's not even 40 yet. He's the grumpy young man of the forum.

When you consider his posts here, take into account that, for you, this is a hobby. For Chuck, it's his life's work.

Hi guys. I reply here only because I have been where vud091 is and maybe my experience here might help.

I had collected off and on for years but was truly a neophyte in comparison to the knowledge found on the forum. I was a date collector with an average grading skill at best. I had heard of doubled die coins only because of the 1955 and 1972 Lincolns primarily. I, too, perceived some answers to be painful and reacted. What I think I was most sensitive about was my lack of understanding in comparison to those around me. I finally realize that I had an interest in varieties, especially In Lincolns, and wanted to understand the difference in MD and other normal production damage on coins vs true varieties. I bought Chuck's book and others, a scope and started looking at handfuls of coins. WOW, half of them had things I did not understand when viewed under the scope. Now a couple of years and thousands of coins latter I have a reasonably trained eye. Nothing like many here but I generally can ID most of the doubled dies and other varieties that are posted. After all, we would not even be asking "is this Machine Doubling" if true doubled dies had not been identified and created the interest. For me, Chuck and everyone else, please keep expounding on your answers, every bit of info is valuable to me.

I would like thank everyone but especially Coppercoins, Coop, and Foundinrolls for variety ID, SuperDave for Morgan insight and
coin photography advise, Kurt and BadThad for overall Lincoln info and grading tips, Metalman for proper vernacular (sorry Rick ;) ), mom and dad and so many more.

I find it amazing that so many knowledgeable people are willing to share their years of learning for free. When they offer more information to a post than requested, it is for me. They know my next question about the post and tend to answer it in advance.

Jim