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 Replies: 33 / Views: 4,834 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1962 Posts |
Quick thoughts: Quote:
These are DANGEROUS. Yup! The Stack's 1812 I accept... The ebay 1813 I accept. The ebay 1812 (from the same seller as the 1813, a legit collector of Mex. WOI from past observation)... lips to ears, I have no concrete opinion on. I find those discrete large pores a bit too much to accept... but there does seem to be some variety in what seemingly legit 1812-dated output presents like. In reviewing/comparing that piece, found a couple other pieces slabbed by PCGS - attempting to be cast, not struck, SUD but vastly different styles - that I find (with supporting evidence) to be garbage. Will post in more detail when I get the chance. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3343 Posts |
While looking for a garden variety Morelos copper 8R SUD, I came across this recent topic. It has appeared many times before.
The idea of a silver Morelos piece is kind of funny. It's reminiscent of the Maltese Falcon line "The stuff dreams are made of." Yes real ones exist, but no you can't have one because they cost a fortune. I had no idea that the fake silver Morelos supported a cottage industry. It's like a Mexican version of the 1804 dollar.
FWIW the 1813 copper 8R I found weighs 30.9 grams. Is this typical? I cleaned it so that I can see the details, but feel no remorse about doing it to a coin this ugly and cheap. History is my main interest, and that's not evident looking at a black disc.
"Two minutes ago I would have sold my chances for a tired dime." Fred Astaire
Edited by thq
02/10/2023 1:42 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
 United States
25398 Posts |
I have quite a few copper SUDs that I picked up 20 years ago. How worried should I be that they are counterfeits?
Inordinately fascinated by bits of metal with strange markings and figures
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3343 Posts |
Why worry at all? They're pretty common, and historically they were more like IOU tokens than money. The silver Morelos are the only ones with substantial value.
That said, if you had them slabbed I'd bet you could sell them for $100 each in today's market. They have appreciated their way out of the cull coin tubs. I'd compare them with the French revolutionary copper sols. Both very historic and very crudely made.
"Two minutes ago I would have sold my chances for a tired dime." Fred Astaire
Edited by thq
02/10/2023 1:05 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
25398 Posts |
thq, what piqued my curiosity was looking at SUDs on ebay. Stunned by the asking prices! Inordinately fascinated by bits of metal with strange markings and figures
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3343 Posts |
It looks like you might get well over $100 for nice specimens.
"Two minutes ago I would have sold my chances for a tired dime." Fred Astaire
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3343 Posts |
"Two minutes ago I would have sold my chances for a tired dime." Fred Astaire
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
25398 Posts |
You misspelled $990,000. That must be pesos.  Inordinately fascinated by bits of metal with strange markings and figures
Edited by HondoB
02/10/2023 9:08 pm
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Valued Member
 United States
131 Posts |
Edited by threefifty
02/10/2023 9:17 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3343 Posts |
I did pesos to dollars at 20:1 in my head Hondo Boguss. That's one expensive escudo. And from a jewelry story?
"Two minutes ago I would have sold my chances for a tired dime." Fred Astaire
Edited by thq
02/10/2023 10:06 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1757 Posts |
3/50 = Looking at the impurities of this gold piece with SEM/EDS analysis could answer? all the questions in this piece. Period gold has metal impurity signatures for the period it was made and geological region - possibly.
Edited by colonialjohn
02/11/2023 11:33 pm
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Valued Member
United States
131 Posts |
Thought I would add another style of counterfeit to this thread. I saw one withdrawn from auction earlier this year and another on ebay recently.   |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1962 Posts |
There's an 1814 version also. Just silver casts modeled on the copper version.
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Valued Member
United States
131 Posts |
A couple cast pieces showed up on ebay yesterday, was interesting to see NGC might be tightening their standards on these?   |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1962 Posts |
Disappointing that they couldn't definitively deem the 1813 "not genuine" - it's a textbook example of the usual 1813. The 1812 is a much easier one to call out.
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Posted 02/10/2023 10:51 am
