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 Replies: 39 / Views: 4,732 |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11904 Posts |
You're not the only one who has had challenges with photos of large shiny objects. Many of us have had this experience. Appreciate all you efforts to provide an accurate rendition of the coin. A coin is tough to grade in a piecemeal fashion showing different parts of the coin. It looks like BH1964 may have had it right with MS64 maybe 65. Better pictures always lead to better assessments so I think all of your efforts help. Thanks!
IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.com |
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Bedrock of the Community
 United States
18708 Posts |
the new photo of the obv is quite different than the original. I had originally thought there was a possibility of proof but I also think you have a business strike.
just based on the obv photo you presented. MS63+ maybe 64 but the loss of all the luster across the cheek may keep this one short of 64
post a reverse photo like the new obv photo to get a more accurate assessment
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Pillar of the Community
 Portugal
678 Posts |
I would be very happy if this made MS65. I also found another nice 1904 in the same seller's stock, that one with a small hit on the back, not the face. Better get it than let it go to melt some day so I bought it also, the other day when I went to swap the 1923 for the 1914S.
He also had a 1900 and a 1900S. Both with several nicks from other coins. And a worn 1904. So I bought the two best looking, even with the same date.
I think this second 1904 was struck with a die that was more worn. To my liking the first one I show here is the better one. But the second may have fewer little marks.
Tomorrow with natural light I will try to get a photo of both, with the old phone camera. Now they always come out bad.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
18708 Posts |
prior to buying raw check out already graded ones on ebay. I think you will find that even MS65 coins have marks and scuffs. they are more lenient on gold when grading. what you think is MS63 could be 64 and what you think is 64 theres a good chance it would grade 65 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7637 Posts |
Wonderful coin, but not a proof.
Based on the pics I would say 65 all day long!
A wise purchase indeed if you choose to end up with it.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10982 Posts |
Another note is that color and luster play a huge roll in grading these pieces. Because they are so big, heavy and relatively soft they can have several large contact marks and still grade 65 because of booming full mint luster and great color. Yours has lost significant luster and likely would not grade 65 at a top TPG. There a chance it could even grade AU+ even though these rarely circulated. Lastly, hidden problems are always a concern. Filed rims, light re-engraving, tiny signs of ex-jewelry or spots of light cleaning/wiping plague pre-33 U.S. gold pieces. |
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Pillar of the Community
Portugal
678 Posts |
True about hidden problems. The 1923 I returned had the rim with some damage. But the four $20 I ended with have it good :) I still cannot get a useful picture of the two side by side. It is hard to focus even one of these big coins. But I could investigate why they look different. These are photos of the Y again. First the 1904 coin in this topic, and second the other 1904 I bought later.   The second is what I am used to see in gold coins. I also looked at the fields of the two St. Gaudens I got. They look normal, like the second one. There is a difference in texture. It was what made photographing this one harder. These larger flow lines scatter the light and give it the frosty appearance. It is not a proof, by any current standards I know. The relief portions are the ones specially treated in proof coins. Here it is just that the field accidentally came out with this grainier finish that create a different shine. Perhaps some coins come out like this depending on pressure or temperature at the press or some other variable of the process. Edited by jecz79
02/09/2023 8:53 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Portugal
678 Posts |
I think BH1964 and panzaldi were right about the luster. Got graded MS64.
A bit disappointed, the fields were nice. But I think it is fair. Have handled other $20 after this, I can see differences in luster between coins.
This is a good forum to ask opinions!
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
18708 Posts |
when you see that kind of break in the luster there is no way they are going to put a 65 on it. they will give a lot of leeway for marks but not that. still a nice coin
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Pillar of the Community
Portugal
678 Posts |
Thank you. Learned something. Luster is very important when considering if a coin is gem quality. And I think you are also right about marks. I sent a sovereign that I feared would come back details because of a mark in the field. Came out details - cleaned. Not because of the mark, one that must have been a scrap against another coin. Broke out the coin and examined more carefully. There are hairlines all over, hard to notice but someone must have swiped it with a cloth. I had not noticed before sending. But there they were there on my older photo, should have looked better. Waste of a holder. Their holders are pretty thick, well made. So I saw there is leeway about marks. And think that is fair, coins hit each other. But any cleaning, hairlines, they notice! I I may ask for another advice. I am leaning to sell this $20, as I found others of the type after, as good I think and with better luster  The numismedia fmv prices are not what to expect from coin dealers, but what collectors expect to pay to dealers? Edited by jecz79
07/29/2023 2:28 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10982 Posts |
Congratulations on your MS64 grade. You did well.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
18708 Posts |
Quote:
The numismedia fmv prices are not what to expect from coin dealers, but what collectors expect to pay to dealers? correct grading gold is a little different animal than other series due to the softness of the metal. the best way to learn grading them is go to ebay or other site and pull up slabbed coins so you can see how many marks/scratches are acceptable and amount of luster needed at each grade. its not as good as in hand but most of us dont have access to them. if you are going to invest in higher end gold then this is a must if the coin is raw |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts |
Congratulations are in order!
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10982 Posts |
Retail on a top tier certified, MS64 1904 $20 Lib is right around $2500 these days. Which is low imo considering there's $1900 in gold there. You should be able to find eager buyers at $2300 or $2400. If you could get a CAC sticker on it the value increases significantly, to over $3000. What TPG did you use? |
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Pillar of the Community
Portugal
678 Posts |
Thank you.
It was NGC. Easier to send from here. And it still takes some 3 months. Not much keen on repeating the experience with CAC.
I am not into doing online sales myself. So I am guessing that to sell it here, to someone who in turn will sell it to a reseller in the US, there goes the whole premium over melt value. Still, better that than to let it go to melt! I am looking here if any of the dealers have interest.
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Posted 02/08/2023 09:34 am
