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Interesting Consecutive Errors Found On 2017A $20 Uncirculated Stack

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 Posted 06/17/2023  6:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoolBreeze to your friends list
The marks appear pretty close together. I vote for machine counter. When you insert a stack of new bills that riffle through notes like playing cards they are held by two holding prongs very similar to these marks. These machines get used a lot when new bills come in because the new bills stick together and they need to run through the separator. Ink could very easily come off onto these holding prongs. Rollers for the BEP would leave marks on the back side of the notes but not at the bottom of each note. These notes were being held at the bottom just like those old style machine counters that riffle through notes in a rolodex like fashion.
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 Posted 06/17/2023  11:00 pm  Show Profile   Check datadragon's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add datadragon to your friends list

Quote:
The marks appear pretty close together. I vote for machine counter. When you insert a stack of new bills that riffle through notes like playing cards they are held by two holding prongs very similar to these marks. These machines get used a lot when new bills come in because the new bills stick together and they need to run through the separator. Ink could very easily come off onto these holding prongs. Rollers for the BEP would leave marks on the back side of the notes but not at the bottom of each note. These notes were being held at the bottom just like those old style machine counters that riffle through notes in a rolodex like fashion.


Interesting, CoolBreeze. They are actually on both the top and bottom, but strangely only 10 in the stack had them on the back of the bills, but not the others just before those 10 and also stopped after those 10. They were all consecutive serial numbers so didnt come from different batches. I will eventually add the 2017 $1s that had them, but not sure if they normally have the marks on the top or bottom from the BEP if someone has a sealed 2017 or 2017a stack could check. Maybe also someone sees them on other bills. There is new equipment since 2013 the BEP uses which is different than before and not yet familiar with the roller functions related to this.

Interesting-Consecutive-Errors-Found-On-2017A-$20-Uncirculated-Stack
Interesting-Consecutive-Errors-Found-On-2017A-$20-Uncirculated-Stack
Edited by datadragon
06/17/2023 11:03 pm
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 Posted 06/18/2023  02:08 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dutch-Tigger to your friends list
greetings, just wanted to bring up a fun fact/question regarding these consecutive serial # notes, could one consider this a type of
"Progression" as the term is used in "error coin progressions" being we have a set of serial #`s of before anomaly, during the anomaly and then after the anomaly? Just thought it an interesting thought.
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 Posted 06/18/2023  02:26 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SteveInTampa to your friends list
What you're describing, @Dutch-Tigger, is deemed desirable by error note collectors. Many error note collectors love acquiring the note before and after the error, when possible.

The question here, I believe, is trying to determine if the markings were applied at the BEP during production, which would make them a legitimate error, although minor.

Or, if the markings were made Post-BEP, which would disqualify them as true error notes.
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 Posted 06/18/2023  08:29 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dutch-Tigger to your friends list
Thank you for that SteveInTampa
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 Posted 06/18/2023  11:06 am  Show Profile   Check datadragon's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add datadragon to your friends list
@Dutch-Tigger, Yes a great answer from SteveinTampa. In this case we can indeed show a progression from before the error (or anomaly if not BEP), with the error, then the error ending so that was unusual as most of the time you would just find say 1 or 2 bills with the marks on them thinking it might be an error, and why I had pulled it and shared. As Steve mentioned we dont yet know if this is from the BEP or perhaps a machine counter and eventually perhaps further finds or info might help to determine that possibly. I also had thought like steve so far it would typically be a minor error, something you might possibly sell individual notes with them on ebay for a small amount over face if not keeping in a personal collection, but only if it is from the BEP. As a progression even with a minor error perhaps would be far more desirable to a collector and worth more, but on $20s instead of $1 or $5 would likely be hard to sell with a minor error in my opinion since it involves a minimum of 12 bills together to show the progression ($240). If there was some type of major error or serial number error in a progression that the bill alone is known to be of higher value would be more likely to be worthwhile imo.
Edited by datadragon
06/18/2023 11:08 am
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 Posted 06/18/2023  12:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dutch-Tigger to your friends list
@datadragon, That is a mouth full and is just the kind of information I do desire and appreciate, it is one of my interest
"progression" due to Error coin progressions are surprisingly hard to verify. I have some coins that have a verifiable progression through their Die markers but none of the examples above Two coins. Thanks again for the intriguing dissertation on this event on these notes.
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 Posted 06/18/2023  12:41 pm  Show Profile   Check datadragon's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add datadragon to your friends list
Yes error coin progressions dont come up often as you would have to have something like a mint sewn bag of them, there was this one below posted (not mine) regarding the strike through on 2020 american samoa bat quarters which shows a progression you may like. Definately something to hold onto when the error itself has value.

Interesting-Consecutive-Errors-Found-On-2017A-$20-Uncirculated-Stack
Edited by datadragon
06/18/2023 12:43 pm
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 Posted 06/18/2023  1:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dutch-Tigger to your friends list
WOW yeah, that is something and most of mine did come from original mint bags my father and I won an auction at a estate sale for the coin hoard. 1960-D, 62-D and 63-D pennies was just some of the haul. 15 bags total, my father had me go through them at my own pace but was certainty a Penny Purgatory for a long time lol. This is how I accumulated such a large collection of RPM`s especially the 1960-D`s witch I am now collecting the small group I don`t have to achieve a complete set of 1960-D RPM`s. well I`ll post some of them on another post as not to hijack this fellows anymore than we have.
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 Posted 07/03/2023  9:53 pm  Show Profile   Check datadragon's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add datadragon to your friends list
Finally got to storage to pick up a few things. Here is the other 2017-a series $1, 4 bills with similar potential errors on the back bottom to compare as they both are 2017-a, however 1 also has ink on the 2 of the serial and E of ONE and a bit on the front bottom, and the other has some on the bottom of the front. This made me think its more likely these were due to BEP (while the prior $20 set I was unsure because there was only those spots.

Interesting-Consecutive-Errors-Found-On-2017A-$20-Uncirculated-Stack
Interesting-Consecutive-Errors-Found-On-2017A-$20-Uncirculated-Stack
Interesting-Consecutive-Errors-Found-On-2017A-$20-Uncirculated-Stack
Interesting-Consecutive-Errors-Found-On-2017A-$20-Uncirculated-Stack
Interesting-Consecutive-Errors-Found-On-2017A-$20-Uncirculated-Stack
Edited by datadragon
07/04/2023 11:02 am
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 Posted 07/31/2023  11:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jonjrl1963 to your friends list
1. I think feed rollers
2. I'm sure there isn't a dealer or collector that would buy them...spend them,.
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 Posted 08/04/2023  07:28 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add luckyrollers to your friends list
very cool and interesting find!! I would of found it weird too if I have noticed it myself.
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 Posted 08/04/2023  2:29 pm  Show Profile   Check datadragon's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add datadragon to your friends list

Quote:
very cool and interesting find!! I would of found it weird too if I have noticed it myself.


Quote:
1. I think feed rollers
2. I'm sure there isn't a dealer or collector that would buy them...spend them,.


Thanks for your inputs, its just too bad its on a stack of $20s as it would otherwise be interesting just to keep. I just found it more interesting since it wasnt found on some notes in the stack before and after plus had seen it on another 2017a $1s and thought to share or at least document before they were spent.

They were in my 'junk pile' I'm clearing out and wasnt even sure if these are BEP related. The actual error isn't in books as something of value I would normally try to look for and isn't something that jumps out where it were found only on a single note I would typically keep more than one so in short I mostly agree.
Edited by datadragon
08/04/2023 2:29 pm
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 Posted 08/08/2023  06:07 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coinsearcher83 to your friends list
Wait, I'm sorry but aren't these caused by ATMs?
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 Posted 08/08/2023  10:26 am  Show Profile   Check datadragon's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add datadragon to your friends list

Quote:
Wait, I'm sorry but aren't these caused by ATMs?


It is certainly possible that the marks could also come from an ATM or the money counter at the bank instead of from the BEP, however that would not explain why it was only on some notes of the stack as there are notes both before and after from the stack that did not have them which is what caught my attention much more than the marks alone. I did find the $1s with what looks to be the same marks but only on 2017a's so far. If they are found on older notes or were on all the notes or all denominations, I'd assume immediately it was a counter machine or atm instead as you suggest. One of the $1s had very minor ink issues on the front as well which I dont know if those are also after the BEP. Just an interesting find from the junk drawer.
Edited by datadragon
08/08/2023 10:27 am
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