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Today's Odd Events At Santa Clara Coin Show

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 Posted 04/05/2009  07:46 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dreamstones to your friends list
KurtS,
Thanks for the great info and simple procedures to keep everyone safe and comfortable. As a person who is just getting back into collecting, I have only been to one show and it was very chaotic. These simple tips will help me do what is right and will obviously help me find which dealers are careful and less likely to cause or have problems.
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 Posted 04/05/2009  11:12 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TNG to your friends list
Kurt, all my comments were of course, just a little bit of a poke at the dealer that probably needs some sort of medication for paranoia. The wisest thing is not to go there again as you said.
Thinking back I have had several distasteful encounters with certain dealers and they do the circuit. It's like some kind of circus around here.
Usual same dealers used to set up in Nesquehoning then Hazelton, you see them again in South Williamsport, Wilkes-Barre then Scranton then State College and York and Lancaster. I used to make all the shows.
I It has been a pretty long time since I went to a show, but I do recall walking right by those tables, eyes straight and making a seat at the next one to examine and purchase coins.
All that dealer did was lose a good customer, and probably the others are aware of his problems.
Him making that fuss over you, was not a reflection on you. Sounds like you stayed pretty cool over it even on the spot like that.
Dealers are responsible for what goes on at their table, and that's as far as it goes.
I would complain to president of the coin club that sponsored the show about him because if they get complaints that he acted this way to others, then maybe they won't send him a contract next time around. Coin shows should be fun not confrontational. Hey and thanks for looking at 1916 D's.
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 Posted 04/05/2009  11:27 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add just carl to your friends list
I usually don't read long posts. Might be old age but I usually start falling asleep if to long. HOWEVER, I did read this one carefully due to a few reasons. I go to 2 to 4 coin shows a month. I live in a rather high crime area and coin robberies are extreamely common. At almost every coin show in my area all coins are kept in glass covered containers or in 3 ringed binders of 2x2's. Seldom are any coins ever left in the open. Even those in those long red boxes are wateced carefully. Many dealers have an assistant for such reasons as you noted.
One favorite method criminals use is to work in pairs. One looks at something and the other pockets something. Not easy if most under glas and/or you have an assistant.
All of the coin shows in my area have numerous security individuals both wearing something that states security or in plain clothing and/or both. Larger shows, such as the annual or simi annual ones use the areas police also all over the area.
Inspite of all these precautions, coins still find a way to walk away.
Glad you posted that. Might make some think a little more at coin shows.
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 Posted 04/05/2009  12:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add KurtS to your friends list
WD,
Agreed--the situation was almost comical in retrospect. However, since I deal with many of these dealers on a regular basis I don't want any unwarranted rumors going around. I have posted this to another forum frequented by a couple of dealers from that show--just so they know exactly what happened. To my way of thinking, there's nothing more valuable than one's reputation.

Carl--I know that many venues are tougher than Santa Clara, and that's partly my point. While many dealers run their tables very professionally, a few have gotten careless and sloppy. To be even-handed here, I suppose this dealer thought he was being a hero by catching another thief--but what he did shows he needs to improve his own procedures--and not alienate customers. What may have worked in a sleepy town a decade ago might not fly in a big city. When collectors step up to the security challenge, dealers need to follow suit.
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 Posted 04/05/2009  7:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add snowman to your friends list
You handled that pretty well in my opinion. I wouldn't have done him the courtesy of emptying my pockets. I would have sent him scurrying back to his table with a few choice words. Then again the dealers I see at shows are generally familiar with me and a lot more professional than the guy that you described.
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 Posted 04/05/2009  8:08 pm  Show Profile   Check vermontensium's eBay Listings Check vermontensium's eCrater Listings Bookmark this reply Add vermontensium to your friends list

Quote:
Don't give a dealer cause for worry. If you're looking at coins, keep them in full sight at all time. I may be a bit of a stickler, but if I need to get something out of my pocket.I put the coins down, stand up and remove my wallet, etc. I try to keep my hands visible at all times. I also don't bring bags which dealers might need to watch.


I know a fair amount of dealers at this particular show and they know me. They frequent Long Beach as well. Those I don't know, I mirror what you do. I keep my loupe in my pocket and always say out loud so the dealer can hear me, "Let me get my loupe out of my pocket" prior to inspecting any coin. Some dealers who have never met me feel pretty comfortable having me pull the coins I want out from their case. I kindly tell them, "Can you pull them out for me". I just don't feel comfortable reaching my hand in some dealers case.


Quote:
I'm sure you are a most honest person, but next time if you visit him, look at his gold coins instead and make him sweat that out, then repeat suggestion number 2

I got a better one. Don't go back to that dealer. He sounds like an idiot. Probably knows everything too. I've had my share of these dealers. They still frequent this show and I walk past their table like they are not even there.

Kurt, sorry I could not make this show. I was ready to board a plane when I received an emergency phone call regarding my dad. I'll be at the next one for sure
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 Posted 04/05/2009  8:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add xshift to your friends list
Wow, Kurt, sounds you had quite the day! Accused of theft (well, nearly), had to rifle through your OWN pockets, and didn't even put a bug in the man's ear for his gall.. you have more patience than most I know LOL glad you got some great buys though! Where's the pics of what you did eventually purchase?!


Quote:

Quote:
3. I'm sure you are a most honest person, but next time if you visit him, look at his gold coins instead and make him sweat that out, then repeat suggestion number 2.


LOL, but nope--not going there.


Oh please, tell me which one he is, and allow me
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 Posted 04/06/2009  12:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add KurtS to your friends list

Quote:
I got a better one. Don't go back to that dealer. He sounds like an idiot. Probably knows everything too. I've had my share of these dealers. They still frequent this show and I walk past their table like they are not even there.


Right, and I won't visit that dealer for one simple reason that possibly escapes him. If he's that quick to accuse me on a cheap coin, what happens when he misplaces something big? Scream at the top of his lungs for everyone to hear, call the cops and press charges on basically nothing? Like this overblown drama. I won't do business with people who spread innuendo and rumors--which might stick amongst the coterie of dealers.

I don't mind dealers voicing their concerns, but they need to focus on something tangible and not expect collectors to shore-up their sloppiness. Simple as that.

Thanks again for everyone's support--you people are great.
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 Posted 04/06/2009  4:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add just carl to your friends list
In spite of all the mostly true comments about the poor manners and judgement of that dealer, there may well be some reasons for this. If he is just a transient dealer from some other area he may well not know anyone at that show. If he was ever at some of the coin shows in Illinois, he probably has been indoctrinated into numerous stories of crime. Then too, he may have had some coins stolen recently making him extreamely cautious. Or he may have heard of how many individuals have been robbed before, during and/or after a coin show. Many stories float around about someone being followed after a coin show. Same with gun shows, knife shows and almost any show where there is a lot of cash being transacted.
I know this is basically no excuse for what might be just poor manners, poor judgement, poor client/customer relations, put there may well be a, good to him, reason.
Not long ago at a flea market here a coin dealer had an entire tray run off. He couldn't leave his tables so the crook just got away. His attitude was miserable after that and eventually, he never came back.
Then too he may have just had an argument with his wife and wanted to take it out on someone that wouldn't poison him.
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 Posted 04/08/2009  6:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BadThad to your friends list
As I posted on the other forum, this is just down right embarrassing. Even though we have not met in person, we've had dealings, email chat and I've read most of your posts here....you are a man of absolute integrity. I would trust you with the keys to my house Kurt. I'm really sorry this has happened to you.
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 Posted 04/08/2009  8:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add KurtS to your friends list
Thad,
Thanks man, and I certainly aspire to be even-handed with people. I think it's to your credit you recognize that in others, because I trust you the same way. So as a balance, perhaps this dealer had a bad day, or prior thefts? I won't guess, but I do try to set a standard with people...in the hope I'm met halfway. After all, establishing a little trust and having a cool head are good qualities in business.
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 Posted 04/08/2009  8:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add onejinx to your friends list
There were 7 people caught stealing at the show that day.

Not that it gives the guy the right to accuse you.
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 Posted 04/08/2009  9:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add KurtS to your friends list
onejink, thanks for your thoughts.
Where you at the show? It was quite a scene...the tension was almost palpable...as was the tragicomedy of it all.
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 Posted 04/09/2009  7:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add onejinx to your friends list
No, I wasn't there but have read a few post on different sites about it
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 Posted 04/09/2009  8:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Norcal Jim to your friends list
I am glad I missed it this time. Sounds like too much drama.
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