Coin Community Family of Web Sites Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors
Specializing in Modern Numismatics Coin, Banknote and Medal Collectors's Online Mall Vancouvers #1 Coin and Paper Money Dealer Royal Estate Auctions - $1 Coin Auctions300,000 items to help build your collection! Royal Canadian Mint products, Canadian, Polish, American, and world coins and banknotes. Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors








Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?


This page may contain links that result in small commissions to keep this free site up and running.

Welcome Guest! Registering and/or logging in will remove the anchor (bottom) ads. It's Free!

Help With Information On Counterstamp 1882-H Canadian Cent

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
First Page  Showing last 15 replies.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 21 / Views: 1,672Next Topic Page 2 of 2
Pillar of the Community
United States
1101 Posts
 Posted 02/26/2024  2:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Phil310 to your friends list

Quote:
Was this Canadian coin found in the US?


It was purchased by me in the US. Of course in it's 142 years there's no telling where it has traveled. There were also some Thomas Buffey's I found in the UK, so it could have been counterstamped there as well.
Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
709 Posts
 Posted 02/28/2024  12:19 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Anaximander to your friends list
I found details of a Canadian book which may help you. Apparently only 150 copies were produced so cost might be prohibitive.

Marked Impressions: A Catalogue of the Joseph Foster collection of 19th century Canadian countermarked coins
Warren Baker
Montreal 2006

2 volumes, text and plates

Anyone on this forum have a copy?

I am waiting for a book on British countermarked coins to arrive in the post. When it does, if it has anything relevant I will let you know.
Pillar of the Community
United States
1101 Posts
 Posted 02/28/2024  09:05 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Phil310 to your friends list
Thanks Anaximander. I appreciate the help!
Valued Member
United States
397 Posts
 Posted 03/07/2024  4:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dar76124 to your friends list
I found a copy of "Marked Impressions" at a somewhat reasonable price (I seem to be collecting numismatic books now) and there is no Buffey in there either. We may never know the origin.
Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
709 Posts
 Posted 03/07/2024  7:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Anaximander to your friends list
I looked in :

British Countermarks on Copper and Bronze Coins
J Gavin Scott

No mention of your countermark, and no mention of a Canadian coin.
Pillar of the Community
United States
1101 Posts
 Posted 03/08/2024  10:55 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Phil310 to your friends list
Thanks dar76124 and Anaximander for checking those resources!

As you said, we may never know who this T. Buffey is.
Pillar of the Community
Learn More...
United States
1467 Posts
 Posted 03/08/2024  1:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add igwt79 to your friends list
Here's a longshot or Buckley's Chance:

Perhaps the grandson of William Buffy, Philip T. Buffey, became the owner of William Buffy's tavern at some time before or near the date of your coin; and perhaps Philip used his middle name instead of his first name (as some are known to do); and perhaps T. Buffey stamped coins for his tavern.

Philip T. Buffey (Canada 1876-1959), son of George M. Buffy (Canada 1827-1900), son of William Buffey (Canada 1798-1873)
Source: https://freepages.rootsweb.com/~rcj...f.html#15081

Then there's this:
"Brampton, Ontario", a.k.a. "Village of Brampton" a.k.a "Buffy's Corners"
Source: https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia...cle/brampton

And this:
Prior to 1834, the only building of consequence at the corner of Hurontario Street and the 5th Sideroad (now Main and Queen Streets in the centre of Brampton), was William Buffy's tavern. In fact, at the time, the area was referred to as "Buffy's Corners". Most business in Chinguacousy Township took place one mile distant at Martin Salisbury's tavern. By 1834, John Elliott laid out the area in lots for sale applied the name "Brampton" to the area, which was soon adopted by others
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Brampton
Pillar of the Community
United States
4421 Posts
 Posted 03/08/2024  10:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ExoGuy to your friends list
I'm late to the party on this posting. I've not before seen this T. BUFFEY counterstamp. There were many c/s's issued in that province. That said, many New Englanders, typically residing in border states, stamped Canadian coins.

The Ontario carpenter who died in 1887 is a distinct possibility, but there are others. Presently, this piece looks like a maverick to me, yet to be positively attributed.

A great many of the 19th century men whose name appears as a c/s were metalsmiths and/or masons. If they didn't create a stamp themselves, a fellow mason would do it for them. The stamp could then be utilized for a commercial purpose or simply personal use, such as marking their tools or other property.

Many a mason carried a pocket piece, being a stamped or engraved coin to be shown to others; this, as a conversation starter, a form of brotherly introduction. Eventually, die struck, official-looking Chapter Pennies, often personalized with a member's name, were utilized.Thus, a carpenter, bricklayer or other simple laborer might possess a masonic penny ID, a badge of sorts.

A good way to research pieces like this is to do a google search for "T. BUFFEY" .... "THOMAS BUFFEY" .... "TIMOTHY BUFFEY" in 19th century books; and, in this case narrowing the time from say 1870 to 1910 or so. Then, try attaching words to each name, like "PATENT" .... "MASON" .... "MASONIC" .... This method boils down to trial and error. Another approach would be "BUFFEY, THOMAS" or "BUFFEY, T" .... attaching the word "DIRECTORY" or "GAZETTEER"- This method has often helped me derive a first name from a simple initial. That said, some solutions have taken me a decade or more to solve!

Good luck, Randy! I'm rootin' for ya!
Pillar of the Community
United States
1101 Posts
 Posted 03/08/2024  11:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Phil310 to your friends list
Thanks igwt79 for the suggestions to check out. I'll do some studying on the links you provided.

ExoGuy, Those are great tips on how to go about researching this counterstamp. I'm going to keep working on it. You know you are the reason I got interested in counterstamps in the first place. Your posts on this forum are always interesting and informative. I decided to get in on the fun. Thanks Bill.
Pillar of the Community
United States
4421 Posts
 Posted 03/09/2024  06:10 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ExoGuy to your friends list
Thanks, Randy .... Dave Bowers, his research and writing on the OIL OF ICE, DR. G.G. WILKINS and WATERFORD WATER CURE c/s's stoked my early interest in this genre. After forty years of pursuing c/s's, I'm continually finding and discovering great pieces.

Another cool aspect of collecting c/s's is that there's a continuous flow of new resources, popping up online. Early newspapers, occupational websites and collector forums are great resources that now yield much info for researchers. None of this existed when I started out, and this computer age has much fueled my interest, as well.

Enjoy the hunt, my friend ....
Edited by ExoGuy
03/09/2024 06:11 am
Pillar of the Community
United States
4421 Posts
 Posted 03/09/2024  06:44 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ExoGuy to your friends list

Quote:
Merchant and Privately Countermarked Coins: Advertising on the World's Smallest Billboards by Gregory Brunk (2003-01-01)

Out of print I believe but still available from Amazon although at a high price.


@dar76124 .... The Brunk reference is now available, FREE, online.

https://archive.org/details/2006mer...145/mode/1up
Pillar of the Community
United States
1101 Posts
 Posted 03/09/2024  2:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Phil310 to your friends list

Quote:
The Ontario carpenter who died in 1887 is a distinct possibility, but there are others.


I'm going to follow that lead.

At what point is there confirmation of a counterstamp. I know finding the counterstamp on a product is good.

I'm curious to know what is acceptable evidence to get from possibility, to probability, to certainty. I'm still pretty new to this.
Pillar of the Community
United States
4421 Posts
 Posted 03/09/2024  4:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ExoGuy to your friends list

Quote:
At what point is there confirmation of a counterstamp. I know finding the counterstamp on a product is good.

I'm curious to know what is acceptable evidence to get from possibility, to probability, to certainty. I'm still pretty new to this.


Some thirty years ago, I purchased my first computer from Radio Shack, a Tandy. It gave me the ability to start building a database for my c/s collection which then numbered around 700 pieces. Presently, the collection is four times that amount and growing. As time progressed, I realized that I needed a simple way to highlight pieces that offered the best chance for a positive attribution. I opted for including a numeric "PROOF" field, ranging from 0 to 4, as follows ....

0 - PUZZLER - A c/s with virtually no chance of attribution (e.g. - random numbers or letters)
1 - POTENTIAL - A c/s that has minimal evidence for attribution (e.g. - only a surname)
2 - POSSIBLE - A c/s for which there are two distinct suspects (e.g. - two contemporary individuals with the same name, initials)
3 - PROBABLE - A c/s for which there is a likely attribution (this, given credible circumstantial evidence)
4 - POSITIVE - A c/s that is attributed (this, by virtue of conclusive evidence)

The attribution of c/s's is, in effect, like a court judgment, a conviction, given the weighing of evidence. When assessing c/s's, there's much evidence to be considered or weighed. There's the font size, the inclusion of accompanying stamps (e.g. - town or address, occupation), multiple name stamps, pictorials, style (smith's hallmarks, logo stamps) and name clues (e.g. - uncommon surnames, initials).

I'd humbly suggest that reading my c/s posts and comments on the subject, you can see and study many pieces that are PROBABLE and POSITIVE; this, that you may judge the evidence which differentiates one from the other. Offhand, I'd recommend the recent posting on the UNICORN stamp.

My one criticism of the Brunk and Rulau reference books is that they were too lax about demanding evidence from their many contributors. Also, they rarely distinguished between POSSIBLE, PROBABLE and POSITIVE attributions, what I call my "P-scale."

During my periodic phone conversations with Greg Brunk, he was onboard with my need to differentiate between these levels of attribution. That said, I understood and much appreciated the daunting task that Greg and Russ Rulau undertook in compiling their tremendous books on this and many other subjects!
Pillar of the Community
United States
1101 Posts
 Posted 03/09/2024  6:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Phil310 to your friends list
Thanks for all that useful information. I really like the P-scale you've come up with.

I went back and read through the thread on the Unicorn stamp and I can see what you mean about credible circumstantial evidence.

Counterstamp collectors need to be History detectives also.
Pillar of the Community
United States
4421 Posts
 Posted 03/09/2024  9:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ExoGuy to your friends list

Quote:
Counterstamp collectors need to be History detectives also.


That's true, to a point. The principal problem with collecting c/s's, as I see it, is that too many folks depend upon Brunk and Rulau listings being "gospel" whereas there are many erroneous listings. Futhermore, auction/seller attributions can be on shaky ground, too.

A parallel issue is the collector purchase of certified coins. The catchphrase, "Buy the coin, not the slab" implies that the purchaser should learn to grade coins, himself.

When it comes to buying counterstamps, the purchaser needs to know upon what basis a given coin was attributed. The simple fact that a c/s is listed in a book doesn't mean that the attribution is valid. Check the book and see if the author's attribution is grounded upon solid evidence. If evidence is lacking, do the homework, which amounts to personal research, seeking out articles about the c/s, posting on a forum, etc..

Collecting c/s's involves a lot more than plugging holes in an album. It's a demanding and engaging process for a collector. That said, I've found it to be a most rewarding pursuit these past forty years.
Page 2 of 2   Previous TopicReplies: 21 / Views: 1,672Next Topic Page 2 of 2
First Page  Showing last 15 replies.
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.


    




Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Coin Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Family- all rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Coin Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Contact Us  |  Advertise Here  |  Privacy Policy / Terms of Use

Coin Community Forum © 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Forums
It took 0.35 seconds to rattle this change. Forums