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Sketchy 1806 Half Penny

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United Kingdom
390 Posts
 Posted 03/21/2024  3:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spyro to your friends list
Many thanks. I'm also wondering if MB had been working out whether it was best to have a wider thinner blank, cos mine's the right weight for an 1806 halfpenny, or a smaller thicker one. The wider one, however, is almost as wide as the 1806 penny so could have been mistaken for one. Not a good outcome.
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United States
12057 Posts
 Posted 03/21/2024  6:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add paralyse to your friends list
Anything's possible!

One thing I would take into consideration would be if there are any other known examples matching your coin's specifications, which might lend more credence to the possibility of a pattern issue or trial strike.

There were proofs issued (gilt copper/gilt bronze) but they are always fully struck up in addition to being rather scarce.

It wouldn't be too far out of the ordinary if it were found to be a trial piece. Both Heaton's Birmingham Mint and Soho Mint struck a staggeringly large number of different token and coin designs and there are dozens of tokens known with muled obverse/reverse dies, overstrikes on existing tokens, halfpennies struck on penny-sized planchets, etc.

If you fancy a good sit and read you can look up 'The Soho Mint & the Industrialization of Money' (Spink: Doty, R. 1998) or 'Matthew Boulton and the Soho Mint - Copper to Customer' (Brewin: Tungate, S. 2020); Tungate has an appendix with lists of weights and measures for all the coins and tokens described therein. The canonical reference is Charles Wilson Peck's 'English Copper, Tin and Bronze Coins in the British Museum 1558-1958' (first issued in 1964.) I don't have copies in my own library, sadly.
Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890

"Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis
Valued Member
United Kingdom
390 Posts
 Posted 03/22/2024  03:48 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spyro to your friends list
Many thanks for that info. I've got Sue Tungate's book and though it mentions an 1806 halfpenny it's the 28mm one, and I have one of those. I'll put pics up for comparison. You'll see why I originally thought it was a forgery cos the strike isn't brilliant, so perhaps MB thought why roll the copper out that thin when I can get as many (and possibly better quality) units out of a sheet for less work if they're smaller and thicker? Looks like I'll have to get a copy of Doty...
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United States
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 Posted 03/22/2024  12:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add paralyse to your friends list
The 1806 issues proved rather more difficult to counterfeit thanks to the combination of the engrailed edge and the concave planchet, as well as Mr. Boulton's absolute insistence on maintaining strict tolerances for weight and diameter, but it's not beyond the realm of possibility that it's a fake. Soho was definitely turning a profit on genuine coins so there would have been a financial incentive for counterfeiters as well.

The cartwheel penny was counterfeited via mold casting as Herr Küchler's design had proved difficult to recreate by the forgers' die-sinkers. Lead casts were copper-washed. They were very soft and easily damaged in addition to being very mushy.

I've heard rumors that some were actually die-struck counterfeits using "recycled" well-worn genuine Soho penny planchets, but have never personally seen one.
Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890

"Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis
Valued Member
United Kingdom
390 Posts
 Posted 03/22/2024  3:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spyro to your friends list
Here are two pics, one of my 1807 halfpenny, the other of my 1806 item. You can see why I thought it might be a forgery. I've used a squared background to show the relative sizes.
Sketchy-1806-Half-Penny
Sketchy-1806-Half-Penny
Valued Member
United Kingdom
390 Posts
 Posted 04/03/2024  03:29 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spyro to your friends list
Thanks for all the info. I've now got hold of a copy of Richard Doty's Soho Mint book. It's keeping me very quiet! I'll see what the assay office and BMAG have in their collections next, and post something when I get back. I'm a bit busy at the moment so it'll be a week or two before I find anything else out...
Bedrock of the Community
United States
12057 Posts
 Posted 04/04/2024  5:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add paralyse to your friends list
Sometimes it seems to be the case that you need two budgets to collect: one for your coins and one for your books about coins.
Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890

"Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis
Bedrock of the Community
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94367 Posts
 Posted 04/04/2024  5:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list
Well said!
Valued Member
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 Posted 04/05/2024  11:52 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spyro to your friends list
Too dam' right! Mind you, It's possible to get a bit back with the odd magazine article too.
Valued Member
United Kingdom
390 Posts
 Posted 04/14/2024  08:53 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spyro to your friends list
Well now. Went to Brum Coin Fair this morning in little old England and chatted to an expert, Dr D Symons (see Matthew Boulton And The Art Of Making Money) who pulled in a chap from what used to be Format Coins (alas now closed) and between them they decided that my strange-looking 1806 Soho halfpenny was indeed a contemporary forgery because the quality of the engraving and the strike were both pretty poor. Boulton would never have let a strike of that quality out of the factory (ref the disappearing reverse legend).Taylor, who bought a lot of Boulton's dies in the 19th century, was in the spurious collectibles market so this item would most likely have not passed muster even at his mint. So ladies and gentlemen, there we are, or do it seems. Glad I bought it as a forgery!
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12057 Posts
 Posted 04/19/2024  1:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add paralyse to your friends list
Thank you for the update! I'm glad to see that the mystery has been brought to a successful (and indisputable) conclusion.

Well done, Spyro Holmes, Dr Watson would no doubt approve of your detective work

Contemporary forgeries of Soho halfpennies must be vanishingly scarce; I must admit I've never personally handled one. I'd keep that one well safe as it's quite an unique and interesting coin.
Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890

"Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis
Edited by paralyse
04/19/2024 1:25 pm
Valued Member
United Kingdom
390 Posts
 Posted 05/22/2024  03:22 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spyro to your friends list
Sorry about the long break. Went to West Mids Coin Fair in Brum and took it with me. 2 experts agreed it was a forgery. I just get the feeling the counterfeiter knew an issue was going to come out but didn't know what was happening to the price of copper so put his fake out based on the old size and "shot himself in the foot".
Valued Member
United Kingdom
390 Posts
 Posted 05/22/2024  03:23 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spyro to your friends list
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