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1983-P Jefferson Stiff Collar Strike Off-Center

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 Posted 06/22/2024  3:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list
Very nifty, congrats!
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 Posted 06/22/2024  10:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Yokozuna to your friends list
Spence asked...

Quote:
Should be pretty well cupped in the area of 3 o'clock on both photographs. Does it show up well when looking at it edge-on?

Here are a couple of different angles on the 'cupped' area of the coin. It's easy to see and feel this with the coin in-hand, but not as easy to photograph, but I did the best I could.

I'm really glad you asked this Spence, because I also discovered something really odd while shooting edge images. The coin has something that looks like reeds on part of the edge. I haven't a clue as to what could have caused this.

Please let me know what YOU think could have caused this.

Images with light source from opposite angles show the 'cupped' area.
1983-P-Jefferson-Stiff-Collar-Strike-Off-Center

Anyone have an idea of what could have caused the reed-like edge?
1983-P-Jefferson-Stiff-Collar-Strike-Off-Center
ANA ID: 3203813 - CONECA ID: N-5637 Clean a coin that may be worth collecting? Please DON'T! When in doubt, leave it dirty!!
1983-P-Jefferson-Stiff-Collar-Strike-Off-Center


Edited by Yokozuna
06/22/2024 10:26 pm
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 Posted 06/22/2024  10:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Yokozuna to your friends list
@Centinal No problem! Almost all of my major error coins came from a coin shop in Dallas, TX. They had a source for error coins that may not have been entirely 'above board.'

They bought hundreds of coins from a seller that may have worked for a Money Management company that wrapped coins for distribution to banks or had some other direct tie to mint issued unsearched new coins. The error coins should have been returned to the mint when found to be cancelled and recycled, but these coins were 'removed' the system by this individual.

The owner of the shop would put many of these errors aside for me so that I got the first chance at buying them.
ANA ID: 3203813 - CONECA ID: N-5637 Clean a coin that may be worth collecting? Please DON'T! When in doubt, leave it dirty!!
1983-P-Jefferson-Stiff-Collar-Strike-Off-Center


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 Posted 06/22/2024  10:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Petespockets55 to your friends list
Neat error coin Yokozuna.

What part of the design is the "reeded" part closest to? (I'm guessing only part of it is reeded.)
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 Posted 06/23/2024  12:23 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Yokozuna to your friends list
@Petespockets55 These 'reed' type marks are visible on the edge starting at K-10 to K-1, then there's a small smooth area with reed type marks starting again at K-2 to K-5. These marks are all near the reverse side of the coin. At K-6 the marks start again, but near the obverse side this time. They then continue from K-6 to K-9 while moving towards the center of the edge with another smooth area at K-9 to K-10.

I've never seen an edge with marks like this. Strange, but interesting!
ANA ID: 3203813 - CONECA ID: N-5637 Clean a coin that may be worth collecting? Please DON'T! When in doubt, leave it dirty!!
1983-P-Jefferson-Stiff-Collar-Strike-Off-Center


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 Posted 06/23/2024  06:52 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Petespockets55 to your friends list
Thanks for the added info. Are the rim locations obverse or reverse or based on which side is showing the "reeds" the strongest.
The profile of the edge appears to show it being angled, with the "reeded" part protruding out further than the un-reeded part.

Maybe this protrusion was the result of the tilted die concentrating more force on opposing faces at opposite ends.
(Physics sure can be daunting sometimes.)

I'm wondering if a quarter collar die might have been used and the tilted die forced the metal (lightly) against the collar on opposite faces?
What's the diameter (reed to reed and smooth to smooth)?
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 Posted 07/05/2024  05:41 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Petespockets55 to your friends list
Yoko,
Did you ever check the diameter on this coin?
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 Posted 07/05/2024  11:30 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinHI to your friends list
Nice, and that is a curious edge feature.
"Pride is yoked with callous behavior, as humility is with compassion." St. Gregory Palamas

Top Finds - 1969-S 1c FS-101 http://goccf.com/t/477681 1976 D WQ FS-101 http://goccf.com/t/382777 - 1968 D 1c FS-801 http://goccf.com/t/422254
Cool clashed dies - 1972 D 1c http://goccf.com/t/429855&SearchTerms=CCL
Struck-In Rim Burr - 1969 S 1c http://goccf.com/t/425587&SearchTerms=burr
Floating (Type II) Counterclash - 1978 D 1c http://goccf.com/t/434991&SearchTerms=1978


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 Posted 07/05/2024  12:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Yokozuna to your friends list
@Petespockets55

Well, NO! I missed your request.

Just a sec... *gets out electronic calipers... looks for the coin* Okay.

It's 21.58mm from K-9 to K-3 and 21.37mm K-12 to K-6. There isn't an area that's solid smooth-to-smooth when measuring directly across from one edge to the other, but the marks are really shallow. They can be seen, and felt, all the way around the edge covering about 85% of the space.

I used the calipers to measure the rise in the rim too, measuring both at K-3 and K-9. The coin is 1.84mm thick where the rims are missing from the obverse and reverse at K-9. I also measured at K-3 and the highest point there on the obverse rim has a rise of 2.37mm with the coin resting on a flat surface.

I hope you can understand my numbers, but JUST in case, I broke out the Photoshop Crayola box and went to work. Sorry It's only 2 colors, but Gunnar, our new kitty, seems to have hidden the other 14.

1983-P-Jefferson-Stiff-Collar-Strike-Off-Center
ANA ID: 3203813 - CONECA ID: N-5637 Clean a coin that may be worth collecting? Please DON'T! When in doubt, leave it dirty!!
1983-P-Jefferson-Stiff-Collar-Strike-Off-Center


Edited by Yokozuna
07/05/2024 12:20 pm
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 Posted 07/05/2024  12:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mikediamond to your friends list
The "reeding" on the edge is post-strike damage. It's often found in broadstrikes, off-center strikes, and other oversized coins. These tend to get caught in the fluted barrels of coin-counting and coin-wrapping machines. The coins are left with a set of oblique ridges and grooves, as seen here.
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 Posted 07/06/2024  03:22 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Yokozuna to your friends list
Thanks for the information, Mike! I'm going to go back and look at some of my other 'no collar' error coins. I just happened to catch that this coin had these marks and I wanted to know more.

ANA ID: 3203813 - CONECA ID: N-5637 Clean a coin that may be worth collecting? Please DON'T! When in doubt, leave it dirty!!
1983-P-Jefferson-Stiff-Collar-Strike-Off-Center


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 Posted 07/07/2024  12:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Petespockets55 to your friends list
Thanks, Yokozuna, Gunnar, and Mike.
(Now to try and remember Mike's info.)

I didn't see Mikes reply until I started down a rabbit hole with an internet search about foreign coinage by the us mint.

FWIW- The results said Panama was the last foreign country the US mint produced coins and that happened in 1983. But when I checked the pdf of foreign coin production on my pc, 1980 was the last year for any foreign coin production.
So, I guess AI isn't so intelligent. So there AI. ...

For grins and yucks, what is the weight?
Words of encouragement are one of the major food groups.
We need to consume them regularly to thrive and grow.
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