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Pillar of the Community
 Australia
2570 Posts |
@j1m *nudge* (AE fals Beyliks of Anatolia)
The Ox moves slowly, but the Earth is patient.
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Pillar of the Community
Russian Federation
5181 Posts |
 - a beautiful Charlemagne portrait on this Aachen (Jungheit) groschen! The 1374 is much rarer and extremely popular (thus far more expensive), and of course the earlier dates are not considered extant, so we probably won't see an older coin with a direct AD date in the How Far Back threads unless we make it all the way to the 1250s and the Crusader issues of Acre. On my own end, I was aware that 776 AH was my entry, but I was hoping that someone else would have that one too, because the date on my coin is a bit awkward...   Obverse (?): hexagram, with dots between rays; six-pointed asterisk in center, apparently also with dots between rays; all within round border Reverse (?): date (reads as x86, but probably 776), Arabic inscription above (illegible on this example); all within round border, which is apparently within dotted border Anatolia, Beyliks of uncertain beylik (Menteshe?) AE fals (?) or mangir (?) dated [x86?] = probably 776 16x15 mm, 0.98 g Numista 309426; cf. Zeno 229143, 229144, 272145, 272146 (all attributed to 776) more distantly cf. Numista 301424 (type with similar obverse attributed to Menteshe); even more distantly cf. Numista 345962, Zeno cat. 5456 (type with similar obverse (?) attributed to Karaman [Numista] / Jandar [Zeno]). Note that the Numista page links to Zeno cat. 12324, a subcategory for undated Golden Horde puls, which is apparently an alternate attribution for some of the mysterious-beylik series; see also Numista 301429, and more details on a similar type in Numista topic 80345. The actual relevant Zeno entries are in cat. 13763 (a catch-all category for uncertain Anatolian beylik AE types). [It looks like a lot of the Numista 301429 subtypes are included in Zeno cat. 5146 (Menteshe).] AFAICT the examples with known findspots/origins are all from Crimea, suggesting that perhaps the Golden Horde attribution could actually be right. I got my coin from a bin full of Golden Horde and Khanate of Crimea coins [as reported in the original thread], so plausibly it's also a Crimean find. All other examples I have seen are either clearly dated 776, or have a date that is clearly mangled from 776. I would guess that the date on my coin is also mangled but in a different way. |
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
2570 Posts |
I don't have a doubt about the date being 776. Yours is clearly the same coin type as your first 4 zeno examples. Upsets with the orientation of the date digits are common, and I can't find an example of any that are shown to be a date in the 780's decade. The text above the date should likely be "al sultan", going by the other examples.
The Ox moves slowly, but the Earth is patient.
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
2570 Posts |
775 H. 1373 CE Dehli Sultans tanka   The Ox moves slowly, but the Earth is patient.
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Moderator
 United States
190135 Posts |
Quote:
As promised, here is my oldest AD-dated coin (1375). This Groschen is from Aachen and is attributed as Levinson I-4a. Outstanding!  |
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Moderator
United States
190135 Posts |
Quote:
All other examples I have seen are either clearly dated 776, or have a date that is clearly mangled from 776. I would guess that the date on my coin is also mangled but in a different way. Quote:
I don't have a doubt about the date being 776. Yours is clearly the same coin type as your first 4 zeno examples. Upsets with the orientation of the date digits are common, and I can't find an example of any that are shown to be a date in the 780's decade. The text above the date should likely be "al sultan", going by the other examples. Good enough for me.  |
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Moderator
United States
190135 Posts |
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775 H. 1373 CE Dehli Sultans tanka Very nice!  I am happy to see the movement over my break. |
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Moderator
United States
190135 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
2570 Posts |
So I'm not sure if the new rule about AH coins applies to the remainder of the 8th edition. But to clear it up totally for me, let's say it does apply, even if in theory.
The next AH year is 774, one of those that is straddling both 1373 and 1372. So in my mind now, because we have had a little run of AH coins leading up to it, we would need to post one here, before we could continue with a 773 (yes/no?). However, because @tdziemia appears to have a 1373 Florence quattrino stashed away, if that was posted, we wouldn't need the 774AH (yes/no?)
The Ox moves slowly, but the Earth is patient.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
7968 Posts |
While that question is being pondered, here is a Florence quattrino dateable to 1373:   |
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Moderator
United States
190135 Posts |
The assessment is correct. The posted CE coin negates the rule. 1375 (Spence CE), 1374 (J1M AH 776), and 1373 (TTK AH 775 and TDZ CE) are all represented for continuity. Since the first 1373 was posted yesterday, we are now ready for 1372 (AH 773) today.  |
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
2570 Posts |
Quote:
The assessment is correct. The posted CE coin negates the rule.
1375 (Spence CE), 1374 (J1M AH 776), and 1373 (TTK AH 775 and TDZ CE) are all represented for continuity.
Since the first 1373 was posted yesterday, we are now ready for 1372 (AH 773) today. Thank you. And here is a 773 H. 1372 CE Dehli Sultans tanka   The Ox moves slowly, but the Earth is patient.
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Moderator
United States
190135 Posts |
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Thank you. My pleasure. Quote:
And here is a 773 H. 1372 CE Dehli Sultans tanka Fantastic! |
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Moderator
United States
190135 Posts |
Good morning!  Today is 1371 CE (AH 772) |
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
2570 Posts |
I have one to post but I don't have access to my PC. I'll be out of action for a few days.
The Ox moves slowly, but the Earth is patient.
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Replies: 10,150 / Views: 318,705 |
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Posted 07/06/2026 06:08 am
