Coin Community Family of Web Sites
FactoryPin — Custom challenge coins for military, police, and organizations. Global shipping, affordable prices, special discounts for service members!  Specializing in Modern Numismatics 300,000 items to help build your collection! Coin, Banknote and Medal Collectors's Online Mall Vancouvers #1 Coin and Paper Money Dealer Royal Canadian Mint products, Canadian, Polish, American, and world coins and banknotes.
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?


This page may contain links that result in small commissions to keep this free site up and running.

Welcome Guest! Register Now! It's free!

Registering and/or logging in will remove the anchor (bottom) ads and vignette (between pages) ads.

2021 D Lincoln Shield Cent-New DDR?

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
First Page  Showing last 15 replies.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 17 / Views: 1,181Next Topic Page 2 of 2
Valued Member
United States
336 Posts
 Posted 04/14/2025  07:34 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mb560600 to your friends list
Thanks for your responses E&V and Marve65.
What is noteworthy is the splitting of the base of the letters in AMERICA. Look at the bottoms of A, M, E, R, I and the last A.
Pillar of the Community
United States
1426 Posts
 Posted 04/14/2025  08:56 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add luvmyCAM to your friends list
Your example looks like moderate doubling in all outer reverse devices, check the initials their likely doubled also. The doubling in lower left clockwise very similar to the 2022 P and D Cents. Good eye nice one.
Moderator
Learn More...
United States
72142 Posts
Moderator
Learn More...
United States
164340 Posts
Pillar of the Community
United States
2254 Posts
 Posted 04/14/2025  11:42 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coin rejector to your friends list
I believe it's a DDR, albeit subtle. If I remember correctly, a CCF member Frank (forget his last name) has posted numerous unlisted LSC DDR's that are similar to yours.
Valued Member
United States
336 Posts
 Posted 04/14/2025  2:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mb560600 to your friends list
THANKS luvmyCAM, Dearborn, jbuck and coin rejector for your responses.
luvmyCAM, you are correct that there is also minor splitting on other of the outer devices on the reverse, but not as obvious as appears on AMERICA.
Coin rejector, I would really like to see the other 2021 D LSCs with doubling you mentioned were posted previously. If you or any others in the CC can post those or identify the contributor,I would like to see the posts for comparison.
Pillar of the Community
United States
5788 Posts
 Posted 04/14/2025  5:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Marve65 to your friends list
The Initials are normal (they would be fatter on a DDR), the EPU is normal size too (they would be thin on a DDR). With the newer way the the doubled dies are made would the letters even have split serifs?
Moderator
Learn More...
United States
72142 Posts
Pillar of the Community
Learn More...
United States
4701 Posts
 Posted 04/14/2025  6:35 pm  Show Profile   Check Brandmeister's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Brandmeister to your friends list
Marve, you can get split serifs with a single squeeze process. I don't know if the exact mechanism is fully understood. For a strong example, look at the 2004-P DDO Peace Medal nickel. One of the things that I've not yet been able to puzzle out is how the perimeter lettering can twist that much without severely distorting central devices like the bust. But it does seem to happen.
Pillar of the Community
United States
5788 Posts
 Posted 04/14/2025  8:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Marve65 to your friends list

Quote:
For a strong example, look at the 2004-P DDO Peace Medal nickel.

Can you even compare a 2004 nickel DDO with a 2021 Shield Cent DDR? .

On the Shield cent DDR's the bottom of the letters get "fatter" instead of showing distinct splits I've noticed........

Pillar of the Community
Learn More...
United States
4701 Posts
 Posted 04/14/2025  9:41 pm  Show Profile   Check Brandmeister's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Brandmeister to your friends list
To my present understanding, the single squeeze hubbing process is the same across all circulation denominations.

The jolted class 9 doubled dies are definitely similar across coins. Lines on shields, lines in doors, doubling on the torch, doubling behind Washington's ear—I believe that's an identical process. Are the distortion class 9 doubled dies also caused the same way across denominations? I don't see why not.
Pillar of the Community
United States
7190 Posts
 Posted 04/14/2025  9:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Chase007 to your friends list
I believe the doubling seen here are most likely caused by Die Deterioration, as no enlargment of devices is present.
Here is a great read on doubled dies classification by CONECA (THE 9 CLASSES OF DOUBLED DIES) including single squeeze doubled die.
https://conecaonline.org/the-9-clas...oubled-dies/

And another useful referrence by error-ref

Quote:
CLASS IX - SHIFTED HUB DOUBLING:
"This form of doubling happens when a slightly misaligned (tilted) die "pops" into position under the constant pressure of the hub and its thousands of pounds of force." ¹

"It is most often characterized by a slippage of the design, in a cardinal direction - much like the Class IV offset hub doubling. It most often affects centrally located design elements. The main difference, with respect to causation, is that the design is never "picked up" off the die during the hubbing. Rather, it suddenly "slides" into place creating doubling in the design." ¹

Once more there are some differences of opinions among the variety experts. John Wexler writes," Class IX. God Only Knows - This class of doubling is for those doubled dies that are simply unexplained. It is for those extremely few doubled dies that defy logic and common sense. It is where the physical evidence does not support a reasonable conclusion on how the working die was hubbed to produce the secondary image."

Those files that have the Class IX use it for listings of doubled dies that were made by the single squeeze hubbing system. However, this presents a problem for there is a grey area when the U.S. Mint used both the single squeeze and multiple hubbings to make dies. This transitional period extends from before 1986 (the first year that the U.S. Mint reported using the single squeeze hubbing system) to 1997 (when the single-squeeze hubbing was finally and fully implemented at both the Denver and Philadelphia mints for all denominations). This time span contains a lot of doubled dies that cannot be confidently assigned to one or the other hubbing system.

Again, there are some listings in the Class IX doubled dies that contain files for trail dies(wavy steps). We feel that this is incorrect and that trail dies, including what is called wavy steps, are not doubled dies, but a different type of anomaly.


Edited by Chase007
04/14/2025 10:25 pm
Pillar of the Community
Learn More...
United States
939 Posts
 Posted 04/14/2025  10:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jfeed to your friends list
Thanks for the link Chase007. I have a hard time dealing with some of the "modern" split sheriff coins being considered "doubled die". I have a jar full that I keep around just in case I'm wrong> Just my opinion.
Valued Member
United States
336 Posts
 Posted 04/14/2025  11:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mb560600 to your friends list
Thanks Brandmeister, Chase007 and jfeed for your responses. A very interesting discussion about this coin!
I did find a listing of a somewhat similar LSC that has miminal enlargement with split serifs that has been confirmed to be a DDR on Variety Vista. It is 2022 VDDR-001.
http://www.varietyvista.com/01e%20L...22PDR001.htm

Pillar of the Community
United States
5788 Posts
 Posted 04/15/2025  01:02 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Marve65 to your friends list
Well send it in to ANACS for a designation - they are fairly inexpensive.
Page 2 of 2   Previous TopicReplies: 17 / Views: 1,181Next Topic Page 2 of 2
First Page  Showing last 15 replies.
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.


    





Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Coin Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2025 Coin Community Family- all rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Coin Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Contact Us  |  Advertise Here  |  Privacy Policy / Terms of Use

Coin Community Forum © 2005 - 2025 Coin Community Forums
It took 0.44 seconds to rattle this change. Forums