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Do Mint Workers Pocket Error Coins?

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 Posted 04/29/2025  08:59 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list

Quote:
While mint workers may encounter error coins during their work, they do not typically pocket them.
"Typically" does a log of heavy lifting in that sentence.
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 Posted 04/29/2025  10:51 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list
Mint workers are scrupulously examined with metal detectors when they clock off, to make sure they aren't smuggling coins out - whether they be error coins or just plain normal coins.

I have heard the story that Royal Mint workers aren't allowed to bring any of their own coins onto the production floor, and even needed to use specially made tokens to purchase their lunch from the canteen. I don't know if mints in other countries have similar "no coins allowed" policies in place for their workers, but such tokens can also be found from mints in India and Pakistan. Understandably, most mints aren't keen on publicizing their security procedures.
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 Posted 04/29/2025  7:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MachinMachinMan to your friends list

Quote:
Mint workers are scrupulously examined with metal detectors when they clock off, to make sure they aren't smuggling coins out - whether they be error coins or just plain normal coins.


That didn't stop some bloke from smuggling thousands of $2 coins out of the mint in his boots

https://www.theage.com.au/national/...-ge2365.html


How do so many "mint state" error coins end up in PCGS slabs if they are destroyed upon discovery?
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 Posted 04/29/2025  9:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list
Yes, people can try and sometimes even succeed in smuggling coins out of the mint, and mints tend to upgrade their security measures whenever a story of "mint worker steals coins from mint" hits the presses, to try to avoid copycat attempts. Most documented mint thefts involve regular coinage, not mint errors.

Coin manufacture on the production floor these days is highly automated - the machines do all the work. All of the actual humans working at the mint are there to make sure the machines are working properly, and to be quality control in case of machine failure. Each and every error coin that escapes is a demonstrable failure of quality control, and that's bad for business - especially if you're trying to sell the mint's high quliaty product to overseas customers. So it's something the mints will put considerable effort into minimizing.

Quote:
How do so many "mint state" error coins end up in PCGS slabs if they are destroyed upon discovery?

Quality control systems are never perfect - they can never catch 100% of errors. Some will slip through. "So many" is a relative term. Even if the quality control systems in place at a mint catch 99.99% of mint errors, and errors have a low chance of happening in the first place, that still leaves a large absolute number of error coins slipping through the system and into circulation once mintages start reaching the millions and billions.

The ever-increasing mintages of coins does tend to leave the impression that "the number of errors around is going up, quality control at the mint must be slipping", when it's mostly justly applied statistics: a tiny percentage of a very large number is still quite a large number. What does tend to make quality control at a mint actually decrease is inflation: the declining worth of each individual coin over time. If a $1 coin costs 20 cents to make, it's not worth spending more than say an additional 20 cents per coin on quality control checking procedures, or you'll start to severely impact the mint's profitability. If an American 1 cent coin costs 3 cents to make, then quality control measures become severely curtailed as a result of cost-cutting, and a higher percentage of those low-face-value error coins will slip through.

A lot of the error coins on the market are mint state or near-mint-state because coin errors are "different" and do stand out from regular coinage, even to the uninitiated. So the more spectacular errors are not going to last long in circulation, and it's quite likely that the first actual human to look at that error coin will put it aside and not spend it, even if they're not a coin collector. This is indeed an argument I often use here on the forum against people who come here with bogus errors: "if the coin has always looked that weird, how did it get so heavily worn? How did so many people simply spend it and give it out in change without noticing there was clearly something wrong with it?".

If there is an actual increase in perceived "mint-fresh errors" on the marketplace, then I would suspect that the "problem" isn't at the mint, but at the frontline services, the people who receive and handle those freshly-minted coins: the people who work at the armoured car companies, the people in the banks and major retailers who receive shipments of new coins direct from the mint. Those are the people who are fishing the error coins out before you get a chance to find them in change.
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 Posted 04/30/2025  8:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MachinMachinMan to your friends list
Thanks Sap.

It makes me wonder how "mint sport" coins get minted and smuggled out of the mint if security is so tight? They must be being made by people higher up the ladder than the average mint worker.
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 Posted 05/01/2025  11:04 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list

Quote:
It makes me wonder how "mint sport" coins get minted and smuggled out of the mint if security is so tight? They must be being made by people higher up the ladder than the average mint worker.

If it happens at all these days, it doesn't happen on the regular production room. It's more likely to happen in the die workshop, where all kinds of presses and such might be available to hand-test a die before it gets put into the production room.

Which doesn't answer "how do they get out". I suppose if we all knew that, there'd be a lot more of them - or we'd have heard about the smugglers getting caught and prosecuted. That dime-on-a-nail in Hondo's post is valuable simply because it's unique; it is also clearly a mint sport, since it's a wood nail and there's no wooden objects in the coin production room these days for a shiny new nail to potentially have fallen down from, and Jarden Zinc, the manufacturer of penny blanks, doesn't make nails. Whoever made it obviously smuggled that nail into the mint, and probably used the same method to smuggle it back out again.

It would frankly be easier for me to believe that that nail is a complete counterfeit made from fake dime dies and was never inside the Mint building. But everyone including the TPGs seem to believe it's from genuine dime dies, so I guess that possibility has been rejected.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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 Posted 05/18/2025  09:13 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ballyhoo to your friends list
Human nature. Where there's a will, there's a way. For some anyway.
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 Posted 05/18/2025  09:28 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jdsstrat to your friends list

Quote:
I would suspect that the "problem" isn't at the mint, but at the frontline services, the people who receive and handle those freshly-minted coins: the people who work at the armoured car companies, the people in the banks and major retailers who receive shipments of new coins direct from the mint


I'm sorry to say that here in the US you need to add the USPS to the list of usual suspects. Theft within the post office in my neck of the woods is rampant and organized, as in gang related.
Edited by jdsstrat
05/18/2025 09:35 am
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 Posted 06/13/2025  7:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add frank wasson to your friends list
If you thought the nail strike error was interesting, then I'm sure you'll like this one https://www.pcgs.com/cert/54887293
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 Posted 06/14/2025  4:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add smat45 to your friends list
Perfect!

smat
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 Posted 06/14/2025  8:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinForMe to your friends list
How did this get past the counting machine? I would guess many things like this walk out from the mints?
Do-Mint-Workers-Pocket-Error-Coins?
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 Posted 06/14/2025  8:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Marc Ingram to your friends list
Yes, in years past they have walked out with mint employees. Not sure about today.
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 Posted 06/14/2025  11:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Marc Ingram to your friends list
I read something somewhere about some major/radical errors being internationally made and smuggled out inside waste oil drums.
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 Posted 06/16/2025  09:17 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list

Quote:
If you thought the nail strike error was interesting, then I'm sure you'll like this one https://www.pcgs.com/cert/54887293


Quote:
How did this get past the counting machine? I would guess many things like this walk out from the mints?
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