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Bronze Disease Advice Needed Please!

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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
2838 Posts
 Posted 03/24/2010  3:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bobbyhelmet to your friends list
Thanks for all the input guys and sorry for the lack of replies - Been busy for about a week.

I have read, re-read and re-re-read most of it and its still not sinking in! Hopefully if I try again in the morning I'll have more luck.

Wish I'd spent more time in Chemistry class listening to the teacher rather than trying to chat up the girl with the great rack. I still blame her for my lack of Chemistry knowledge.
New Member
United States
36 Posts
 Posted 03/24/2010  3:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sfchemist to your friends list
Here's another link that might prove useful:
http://nautarch.tamu.edu/crl/conser...l/File12.htm
Bedrock of the Community
United States
19951 Posts
 Posted 03/25/2010  4:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BadThad to your friends list
Great link! I'm going to contact Dr.Hamilton...thanks for that.
Lincoln Cent Lover!
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New Member
United States
36 Posts
 Posted 03/25/2010  5:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sfchemist to your friends list
Brad,
You're welcome. This whole subject on bronze 'disease' has me interested. I have a few ancient coins laying around but most of them are silver denarii and I've never messed with ancient bronze coins. Although, for some inexplicable reason, I found a container of Renaissance Wax (Ren-Wax) in my cabinet but have no idea why or where it came from. If you would like to experiment with some let me know and I'll send you a little dab...sounds like an old Brylcreme TV commercial ;) I certainly wouldn't put this stuff on any expensive bronze coins without doing a lot of research on its long term effect. Although now that I think about it, I do sort of remember getting this stuff (Ren-Wax) for a potential project on ancient bronze coins but never pursued this particular numismatic avenue. I'm now collecting Morgan VAM Varieties and Bust Halves.
Wayne
Bedrock of the Community
United States
19951 Posts
 Posted 03/25/2010  9:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BadThad to your friends list
Thanks for the wax offer. I might take you up on it someday, but right now I'm buried in chemistry projects between my book and a new protective coin conditioner I'm working on.

What kind of chemisty did you do before you retired? It's cool to have another scientist around here.
Lincoln Cent Lover!
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New Member
United States
36 Posts
 Posted 03/25/2010  9:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sfchemist to your friends list
I was an analytical chemist working for a private environment lab running a number of EPA analytical procedures. I operated a GC/MS, LC/MS (Thermospray from HP), various other GCs and LCs with a number of different detectors. Have extensive work studying and analyzing Aflatoxins on tree nuts. I was a nerd, still am I guess, wore a white coat, stood in front of analytical instruments all day and even wore a pocket protector. And yeah, I'm bald, and wear glasses.....gee, I really am a nerd. !
Pillar of the Community
Thailand
1509 Posts
 Posted 03/26/2010  01:28 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add thai-vic to your friends list
I can't offer any opinions or advice on bronze disease but just wanted to thank everyone for the discussion. This really is one of the most educational forums. And it's great to see that problems over differences of opinions can be resolved. Would that the world's politicians had the same capacity.

To sfchemist: I hope your wife makes a full recovery. By the way, on your "extensive work studying and analyzing Aflatoxins on tree nuts", just how did you get the tree-huggers to let you to conduct your experiments on them?
New Member
United States
36 Posts
 Posted 03/26/2010  02:15 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sfchemist to your friends list
Actually it was not a problem at all. Aflatoxin is a
metabolic by product of a mold growth from the
species: Aspergillus flavus. This toxin is actually
found in the edible portion of tree nuts such as
almonds and pistachios, and also in peanuts.
It is highly carcinogenic and has even been found
in cow's milk originating from contaminated feed.
Not to be an alarmist, but I only purchase tree nuts
from major well known suppliers like Planters.
And no, I am neither a stockholder nor affiliated
with Planters ;)
Aflatoxin is a serious naturally occurring toxin that is very harmful at even low levels measured at the part per billion level.


Bedrock of the Community
United States
19951 Posts
 Posted 03/26/2010  10:58 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BadThad to your friends list

Quote:
was an analytical chemist working for a private environment lab running a number of EPA analytical procedures. I operated a GC/MS, LC/MS (Thermospray from HP), various other GCs and LCs with a number of different detectors. Have extensive work studying and analyzing Aflatoxins on tree nuts. I was a nerd, still am I guess, wore a white coat, stood in front of analytical instruments all day and even wore a pocket protector. And yeah, I'm bald, and wear glasses.....gee, I really am a nerd. !


COOL! I'm an analytical chemist too. I'm the head (senior) chemist for my companies analytical lab. We run a lot of instruments: SEM-EDXRF, X-Ray fluorescence spec, FTIR with DATR, HPLC DAD + ESA ELSD, CIA, KF Analyzer, UV spec, Auto VISC, Ion Chromatograph and an AA.

We manufacture metalworking fluids so we do a LOT of testing and studying metal-fluid interactions. Thanks why I'm able to bring a lot to the numismatic side of things....I study metals and fluids every day.
Lincoln Cent Lover!
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1882 Posts
 Posted 03/26/2010  11:13 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add steve199 to your friends list
thai-vic, you made me laugh!
New Member
United States
36 Posts
 Posted 03/26/2010  11:48 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sfchemist to your friends list
Brad,
Do you happen to know a fellow numismatist, Chris Pilliod? I met him years ago and he is a very intelligent and friendly guy who specializes in metallurgy and is well versed in US mint operations. Haven't heard from him in a while and if he happens to see this posting...Hi Chris!
Your mention of XRF brought back fond memories of my work using this technique to determine bromide levels (from Methyl Bromide fumigation) in a variety of stored food products. I've spent a great deal of time using HPLC reverse phase chromatography but have had little experience with diode array....most of my work used traditional UV/Vis and Fluorescence detectors. We did a lot of EPA 531.1 and 632 analyses using a Hewlett Packard HPLC/MS, which proved to be a powerful tool in the identification of these various pesticides. Oh, the memories, I haven't been in a lab in some time but it was always a lot of fun.
Thanks for writing,
Wayne
Bedrock of the Community
United States
19951 Posts
 Posted 03/26/2010  1:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BadThad to your friends list
Sorry, I don't know Chris.

HPLC is my favorite technique. Over my years I've developed and validated perhaps hundreds of HPLC methods. I've even met Kirkland and Snyder when I had the honor of taking one of their courses back in the day.
Lincoln Cent Lover!
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New Member
United States
36 Posts
 Posted 03/26/2010  1:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sfchemist to your friends list
Holy Cow!! You're kidding ! I still have their book "Introduction to Modern Liquid Chromatography." It used to be on my desk at work for quick and ready reference and I've kept it with me all these years. And you've met these guys, and took a course from them, that is just so cool. BTW: to show my age my book is the 2nd Edition published in 1979 and I have it in my hands "as we speak." It just took me a second to find it.
Wow, you are really bringing back a lot of memories...This is awesome, I love these guys and have used their book so much the binding is falling apart. The cover page of my book says Snyder is from Tarrytown, NY and Kirkland from Wilmington, DE. What school did they teach at?
Thanks, Wayne
Bedrock of the Community
United States
19951 Posts
 Posted 03/26/2010  3:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BadThad to your friends list
LOL....they both signed my HPLC Method Development text book too. They are the "gods" of HPLC for sure.

This was a course I took after I was out of school, my employer at the time paid for me to go. As I recall it was a three-day course on HPLC method development and troubleshooting taught by them. I'm sure they will BOTH remember me, I actually asked them some questions about HPLC they could not answer, both said they'd research my questions in the lab because they were good questions....hehehehe...my claim to fame. As a recall, one of my questions dealt with positive eluting peaks BEFORE t_0. I bought a chromatogram with me to the class. LOL
Lincoln Cent Lover!
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New Member
United States
36 Posts
 Posted 03/26/2010  4:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sfchemist to your friends list
Outstanding....I too took several post graduate courses but never one taught by such distinguished authors. Let's see, positive peaks before t=o, I sort of remember seeing these, small peaks about 1/2 to 1cm in height and just thought they had something to do with a detector disturbance at the point of injection with our automatic sampling system. A lot of my work was with carbamates using a post column derivitization setup where the analytes were hydrolyzed with NaOH, o-phthalaldehyde(OPA), and a real foul smelling substance whose name eludes me right now, but we were looking for ppb levels with fluorescence detection and always seemed to have a little baseline disturbance with our setup. Nothing serious but these peaks you are mentioning do sound somewhat familiar to me. Fortunately all of our work was confirmed by LC/MS and I was always proud of the quality of our reports. We would get quarterly test samples to maintain our certification and always performed at the highest levels. Lot of fun and at times I do miss it...also miss troubleshooting and repairing analytical instruments. Heck, I'd have those instruments completely torn apart, our lab director would walk in, take one look at it and just shake his head and walk out. But I always managed to put everything back together without too many 'extra' pieces laying around. We were a private lab and when a customer wanted something done, he wanted something done, and we didn't have the luxury of waiting for a repair technician to show up---we did most of the repair work ourselves. Sorry for rambling here, just enjoying reminiscing about some very interesting and enjoyable times.
Wayne
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