Coin Community Family of Web Sites Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors
Vancouvers #1 Coin and Paper Money Dealer Coin, Banknote and Medal Collectors's Online Mall Shop for APMEX Bullion on eBay!Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors Specializing in Modern Numismatics Royal Canadian Mint products, Canadian, Polish, American, and world coins and banknotes. 300,000 items to help build your collection!








Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?


This page may contain links that result in small commissions to keep this free site up and running.

Welcome Guest! Registering and/or logging in will remove the anchor (bottom) ads. It's Free!

Pcs Grading Company?

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
First Page Previous Page  Showing last 15 replies.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 43 / Views: 29,779Next Topic Page 3 of 3
New Member
United States
26 Posts
 Posted 07/01/2013  11:59 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fusiafinch to your friends list
PCS just doesn't get the market recognition. That's the reality of it. I think ICG is better than PCS. So that would make PCS 5th. If you want to get your money out of the coins, you need to stick with PCGS, NGC, or ANACS. That's my 2 cents.
New Member
United States
10 Posts
 Posted 07/17/2013  09:28 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add chuckno8 to your friends list
Reading everything the problem I see is:
Old PCS grading was not good according to owner of old PCS
so how to tell any old PCS from new PCS which may or may not be good.

ICG and CAC spent tons of money on marketing which helped them get established.
Also someone who questioned grading being done by the seller is a conflict of interest should remember who founded and still runs PCGS
David Hall coin dealer. Who is still a coin dealer.

I bought a PCS 1921 Peace dollar. Seller allows returns for any reason.
I'll let you know what I think after I get the coin.
Pillar of the Community
United States
9792 Posts
 Posted 07/17/2013  4:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westcoin to your friends list
Welcome Bruce, very well said.

If a company doesn't stand by their grade with a buy back guarantee at fair market prices then that is an issue. PCGS, ANACS, NGC all do this for the most part. They also have graded tens of millions of coins with a market value in the billions. There is something to be said for that as well. Talk to 100 coins dealers and see what they say, if another company were to come along and compete with the big grading companies, more power to them, but it will be a very expensive and long uphill battle to do so IMO.

My friend from high school started ICG to combat the perceived problems with certain dealers getting preferential treatment from the grading companies, they made a good run at it, he spent millions of dollars competing in advertising, coming up with a better holder at the time, and making all graders not trade in rare coins. The coins were received by an independent CPA firm that placed each coin into an anonymous holder so as to hide any clue as to who was submitting them, another good idea. In the end they are still around, still doing okay, my friend sold the company several years ago. They never really competed with NGC and PCGS those two were just too big in the industry.

Bottom line buy the coin - not the holder no matter who slabbed it. Knowledge is king in this hobby.
"Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013!
ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2¢ variety collector.

See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440
Pillar of the Community
United States
9792 Posts
 Posted 07/17/2013  4:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westcoin to your friends list

Quote:
Ummm, I must have missed it when PCGS set up a retail website for selling coins


Technically it's called David Hall rare coins. and now Collectors Marketplace.

The reason as I mentioned ICG started up to put coin grading into the hands of competent graders with no improprieties of who is submitting them. Good idea, taking the sales aspect away from the grading but in the end they lost.

Some of the lower tier graders and self slabbers may indeed have good intentions, and even grade as fairly as the big three. But in the end can the slab billions of dollars of coins and still be able to buy them back?

Don't get me started on authentication - that is one area very few lower tier graders do well on.
"Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013!
ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2¢ variety collector.

See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440
New Member
United States
10 Posts
 Posted 07/17/2013  9:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add chuckno8 to your friends list
Buy the coin not the holder? Hmm
Problem is PCGS and NGC now market coins that can only be differentiated by the holder. Early Release, First Strike, San Francisco Mint Silver Eagles(No S).
Why does the mint bother with mint marks if they are not going to honor the intent of the mint mark representing where the coin was struck? Silver Eagles struck in SF should have an "S"
Moderator
Learn More...
United States
16679 Posts
 Posted 07/17/2013  9:18 pm  Show Profile   Check vermontensium's eBay Listings Check vermontensium's eCrater Listings Bookmark this reply Add vermontensium to your friends list
It's someone in their office printing out labels, giving their opinion on a grade, and placing the coin in a Coin World holder with what looks like a bar code number.
That's all this is. Not a reputable TPG.

I don't buy or collect modern coins or proofs or bullion related.
With classic coins it is definitely buy the coin not the holder.
swcoin.ecrater.com
New Member
United States
10 Posts
 Posted 07/24/2013  8:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add chuckno8 to your friends list
I got my PCS grade 1921 Peace dollar MS65.
Looks like it probably 65+ but looks like dipped. I'll send it in to PCGS to get it graded and see what they say.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts
 Posted 07/25/2013  1:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list

Quote:
Technically it's called David Hall rare coins. and now Collectors Marketplace.

Of course David Hall claims that his company never submits coins to PCGS and that all of their PCGS stock coins are purchased from others.
Pillar of the Community
Learn More...
United States
2448 Posts
 Posted 07/27/2013  12:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add carmykle to your friends list
Interesting you brought up IGC. I have a few early offerings from ebay graded by IGC and I believe they are over-graded; way too many hits for MS69.

Although, I'll wager that they'll improve their skills now that they are recognized by ebay as a reputable TPG.


Great Discussion! I know I haven't been around for a while but, wow great input. Curious what PCGS graded that one you submitted from PCS.
New Member
United States
10 Posts
 Posted 07/27/2013  5:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add chuckno8 to your friends list
I'm doing economy so it will be 6 weeks before we know. I could do ANACS for faster but PCGS grades silver dollars easier. Also putting in some from another TPG where for a change they seem to be undergrading.
New Member
United States
2 Posts
 Posted 01/18/2014  3:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add billionaire to your friends list
This is my first post because I bought a pcs coin and was doing some research and came across this. So chuckno8 what was the grade you received for your coin?
New Member
United States
4 Posts
 Posted 01/18/2014  6:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BruceJonathanFick to your friends list
This is my personal experience with buying PCS slabbed coins: There are 2 regular outlets for
them on ebay: Hubby's Coins and Jake's coins situated near each other in Indiana. I believe they're the mother and son of the father source who's located in a Western state as his PayPal
Email related payee address is Mustang 1. Hubby's aka Midwest coins notes they deal in Morgan
and Peace dollars...That they got in on the 1962-64 Mint bag sales to dealers. Caveat Emptor
if you're lured in to buy PCS slabbed coins. Why ? Because the lure is PCS. Which can confuse
people to believe they grade according to PCGS grading standards. PCGS will stand behind their
grading standards as they are a Numismatic Guarantee Company competing with NGC. When you send
a Morgan or Peace dollar in to PCGS to grade it, as long as they can assign a number grade, you pay a 1% premium similar to buying insurance. PCGS can't control what the Morgan dollar market values will be for their coins, but PCGS tracks their sales prices, and adjust them so you know
the maximum apprx. resale value for their slabbed coins. Ie: they put your money where their
policy is. PCS won't so any of that. Nor will PCS adhere to PCGS published grading standards.

Being honest & fair, a very small %age of PCS slabbed coins are worth buying as investments. But
don't count on their estimated grades or photo adverts to go on. I bought (1) 1896 O Morgan and
(1) 1897 O Morgan from Hubby's Coins misrepresented as MS 64. The trick photography made it seem
like they were blazing with luster-but only because they shone strong light directly at them to
blind consumers. When I got them and examined them both coins were dull VF-XF circulated coins
that could have sold for Hubby's minimum bid price BUT ONLY IF PCGS HAD ENCAPSULATED THEM. The
coins themselves were not counterfeits from China, but the grading is definitely counterfeit as
PCS slabbed coins uses subtlety to all but infringe on PCGS' copyright to con buyers to think
they're PCGS grading standards. But they're not. (I bought yet another PCS 1896 O misrepresented as MS 64 (realy A.U.) from another ebay vendor) After I returned Hubby's 2 coins and gave them
a neutral rating ( only as they refunded my money ) they retaliated by Discriminating against me by blocking me from bidding on any future auctions. Despite their guarantee to refund w/in 14 days, she Emailed me she'd not sell me any coins if I returned them from the start. I bought an 1880 O Morgan misrepresented as an MS65 from Hubby's Coins. Upon examining it under a 30 X jewler's loupe it was realy an MS63+. Again, if a PCGS slabbed coin it would price at $525 with a grade of MS63+, while a genuine MS65 would fetch $ 27,500-$28,000. If you Google search for PCGS Commentary on the 1880 O you'll see their est population for an MS 65 is extremely low. Yet Hubby's sells (supposedly) MS65 1880 O Morgans on a semi regular basis as they do the 1921 Peace dollar in that same misrepresented MS65 grade. There are other clues in that PCS distributor's
webpage which give away the suspect nature of their dealings: Calling ALL their PCS coins SUPER
investments by purporting to auction them at 1% to 10% of the genuine PCGS slabbed coin market
value. Then hyping those false claims with the emotional sensationalism of tripple exclamation
points, red, white and blue ink, Bold capitalized letters...All serve to induce the unwary to
believe they've happened upon Captain Kidd's buried treasure chest full of Gold doubloons with
the designation PCS. As if.

Like ANGS, SEGS, 50 other basement counterfeit slabbers, PCS is not regarded as reputable. The
wary, well read, experienced buyer realizes the reason why PCS deals exclusively with Morgan/Peace
dollars is 1. They represent 1/2 the U.S. coin market. 2. The Mints produced nearly 1/2 BILLION
of these coins. 3. Historicly, they're the preferred coin of Western gamblers from 1878-1964.
So, yeah , it IS possible for them to release a 1928 Peace dollar in MS 66 for chump change or
a 1921 Peace dollar with full eagle feathers every great once in a while. Even a broken clock
has to read the right time statisticly twice a day, no ?
New Member
United States
4 Posts
 Posted 01/18/2014  7:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BruceJonathanFick to your friends list
Oh, btw, 1 thing I forgot to mention. While doing a lot of Internet research on
grading Morgan dollars, I happened upon a numismatist who was very informative.
He refered to Hubby's and Jake's Coins, as the virtualy exclusive outlets for
PCS slabbed Morgan/Peace dollar coins, indirectly by listing the trick tactics
they use as I have. ( Apparently these 2 ebay sellers have spent the past 5
years fleecing suckers so successfuly that, despite their con, they still have
very high ratings from their feedback. I believe the reason for that is they pay
off dissatisfied former customers with small amounts of money to protect their
ebay ratings as they did me. ) Still the reputable numismatist whose article I
read advised consumers to be on their guard about their deceptive advertising
claims & trick photography. And to never spend more than a max. of $300 on ANY
PCS coin Hubby's & Jake's Coins auctions. Don't gamble if you can't afford nto
loose. I wasn't lucky enough to get the gorgeous fully struck 1928 blazer that
Hubby's Coins sold on ebay years ago., Had no bread to spend on the same MS66
1928 blazer she sold in Summer 2013. I was able to manage a 1921 High Relief
Peace dollar with full eagle feathers. Sort of the consolation prize for buying
so many PCS junk coins before that 2nd 1928 was advertised for sale. But then
I realized one of their mainstay tricks is to put one of those superb Gems out
as bait every once and a while to sell their junk PCS coins in a steady stream.
I realize to coin hobbyists that makes no sense. Heck, any coin hobbyist would
keep one of those 1928 MS 66 Gems for their own collection and never part with
it. But the rub is that the PCS sellers are not fine Silver engraved art fans
as we are. They're money grubbers. PCS gives a bad name to the hobby we all love.
New Member
United States
2 Posts
 Posted 01/18/2014  10:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add billionaire to your friends list
Looked at a coin I also bought before and its graded by NCG... not NGC. Any idea what to do with theses coins. Should I get them regarded and find out what they're really worth? Or is it not worth the money?
New Member
United States
4 Posts
 Posted 01/19/2014  12:53 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BruceJonathanFick to your friends list
Hey, Billionaire...In answer to your question of how to tell if your
coin's worth being professionaly graded ( by NGC or PCGS ). Google up
PCGS' website, and navigate to instructions on what's required. Then
after you calculate the 1 year membership costs vs perks...Then after
you compute the grading fees ( say for 4 coins worth a max of $3 K @,
the shipping & insurance you pay to send..the same for them to return
them to you, then the 1% premium on their est graded value...Divide
that total by 4 and add the price you paid to buy it dlvd. With all that you come up with a bottom line cost for your goin to be graded.

Next step is to look up PCGS' graded populations for your coin to see
how much the graded coin market for it's resale will bear. If it costs
you $ 100 to grade a coin worth only $ 50, then don't bother. But if
you paid $100 for a coin worth $500 if PCGS graded, then go for it.

I started collecting Morgan/Peace dollars when I was 9. Over the past
56 years, I learned the bottom line in making your hobby double as an investment vehicle is to learn how to grade what you collect. PCGS is
la creme de la creme of all coin grading companies. It's like buying
Carvel ice cream compared to adulterated cheapo ice creme. You get what you pay for in life, so invest your time & attention wisely as
you would your dinero. PCGS publishes it's grading standards in text,
and also furnishes illustrations of their coin grades with photographs
If you invest some time studying their standards & photos long enough,
you'll eventualy associate them both in your mind and be able to grade
pretty much as PCGS trained graders do. I Googled up all the Internet
published articles on grading I could until I found some Gems one guy
published on how PCGS grades each coin. They have 1 screener who sees
the coin first to verify it's the genuine coin and not a Chinese counterfeit..,That all surfaces are original and not cleaned, dipped,
polished etc. Then 2 other guys grade it independently of the other.
Obverse carries 2/3 of the weight of the grade. Reverse is tie breaker
If you realy want to score, bro, then learn how to grade as PCGS does.
Page 3 of 3   Previous TopicReplies: 43 / Views: 29,779Next Topic Page 3 of 3
First Page Previous Page  Showing last 15 replies.
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.


    




Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Coin Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Family- all rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Coin Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Contact Us  |  Advertise Here  |  Privacy Policy / Terms of Use

Coin Community Forum © 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Forums
It took 0.42 seconds to rattle this change. Forums