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Bedrock of the Community
 United States
19968 Posts |
IMO this coin would easily grade MS-65 at any TPG. The reverse hit would prevent it from making 66, it's too deep. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12437 Posts |
I concur with MS-65RD, it is almost impossible to find an early 80s Zincoln with no zinc zits at all  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7123 Posts |
I love a challenge  can anyone show me any known standard ,ana,pcgs,photograde any published standard which would allow this coin to be graded as a 65? Thad I hope you know already that I think the coin is really a great example for a zincoln and my questions are not meant to diminish it in any way, all I am relly trying to do is find out how the coin was graded? was it intense feelings, personal opinion or based on a technical scale? I have at least 26 rolls of coins which would benefit from this coin making a 65, each of the coins in those rolls has some defect that technically keep them as 63's, with may be a 64 or two thrown in based on a technical highly regarded companies standard. so what do you say can we have this conversation?  |
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New Member
El Salvador
13 Posts |
I was completely wrong with me MS65
Edited by Celartu
09/16/2010 7:29 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
19968 Posts |
Quote:
was it intense feelings, personal opinion or based on a technical scale?
All of the above after looking at perhaps several thousand and checking photos of 66 and 67 coins on HA.com....in fact, every photo on ha.com. LOL Sadly, nobody has a 65 graded so there's no direct comparison. Nonetheless, I've gotten pretty good at determining what will make a 65 based on blemishes and what will not. The 65 grade is a lot easier to make then most people would think. A few little hits or spots won't keep a coin out of the grade if it has blazing luster. As you should be well aware, this is a very tough issue. The vast majority have hits, spots and strike issues. While this is not the same issue, what do you think this coin grades?   |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7123 Posts |
a non emotional attachment to a coin is one of the reason that the TPG's are viewed as more reliable than the average collector, the person viewing the coin does not know the submitter, and has never seen the coin prior to the 2 seconds that it is viewed to grade. that emotional connection to the coin is also IMHO the place where raw coins lose value when in a collectors collection. Thad I understand how a person developes an eye for coins and an attachment that goes beyond the technical values after viewing thousands of coins and tossing most if not all into a return pile week after week and month after month until you find a coin such as your original thread starter coin here. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7123 Posts |
By the way your second coin is AU-55 at best
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
19968 Posts |
AU-55? Why would you grade that 1999 that low? Please enlighten. Lincoln Cent Lover!VERDI-CARE™ INVENTOR https://verdi.care/
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7123 Posts |
Thad , the grade given the 99 is exactly what the technical grade is , slight wear on the cheek and jaw noticeable on lincolns shoulder as well as the pillars and stair posts on the reverse.
Trust me you would not be the first to try and prove that I am an overly conservative grader, or that I consistently grade low as a matter of course.
Please support the MS-65 grade on the first coin, use any standard you like, pcgs,ana,or anacs or ?
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
19968 Posts |
There's no wear on the 99. The "scratchiness" is due to the strike. Extremely common on Zincolns, you usually see it on the top of the head in the hair, but it can also been seen sometimes in the temple, cheek, jaw, lapel and the the shoulder (design high points). I expected the 99 to grade 64 with the spots, but it turned out better.  Lincoln Cent Lover!VERDI-CARE™ INVENTOR https://verdi.care/
Edited by BadThad
09/17/2010 8:31 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
19968 Posts |
Quote:
Please support the MS-65 grade on the first coin, use any standard you like, pcgs,ana,or anacs or ? There's only two blemishes on the coin and a bit of reverse strike weakness, but not bad for the issue. 5 point deduction for blemishes. The TGP's all reward for luster, the coin has it. Here's a quote from PCGS recently discussing color: Quote:
Minor spot or two may be allowed if compensated for by superior luster/reflectivity or intensity of color. Basically they have admitted what I've known all along. Luster rules! That's why we see many 65-68 Lincoln pics and say "NO WAY". We've all seen the pictures....but they don't show luster. Fresh, minty bloom goes toward a lot of the grade weight.  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7123 Posts |
Thad I will stick with what I know PCGS says, those distractions cannot be in the focal areas of the coin, but those outside the focal areas count toward the whole. The hit on the steps is a very big detraction it is right in the middle of the focal area, if that hit was in the field then the coin may go 64 and the luster may help it into a 65 slab, but again we are talking about coins which are slabbed that do not follow the TPG criteria. very much like the 99, I could see it making a 58 on a good day but I still believe part of what is seen on the coin is wear, If I remember right you pulled that coin from circulation? which would explain the wear that I know I see. coins like this are exactly why I stand opposed to the TPG's. I will give you this though pictures can be decieving and are far from the best arena for grading. and I knew you were up to something when you threw another coin into this thread. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
19968 Posts |
Sorry for the ringer, just had to make the discussion interesting.  You know I basically agree with you. I think the grading is loose with the TGP's and they all have their inconsistencies. The AU/MS thing is crazy. That's why we have so many AU-58's around. A lot of those are cracked and come back MS. LOL Hey...it's all fun to talk about. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7123 Posts |
Its all good Thad, and this discussion I'm sure has help me and most likely many others, My hope is that it sparks collectors to apply serious effort to learn to grade their own coins.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2600 Posts |
First, that is an amazing coin, Thad. Where has it been and how did it get into a circulated roll looking like that.
I am in the MS-65 camp and it might make 66 but metalman is correct in that the hit will keep it out of anything higher. On the 99, I have seen so many coins with the lines on the high points. One day I think they are wear and the next not. Pics make it impossible to tell.
I do believe that Thad is accurate with luster amping up the grade. I have two 1909-VDBs graded MS-65, one by NGC and the other Anacs. I would grade them both63+. I have wondered that if over the yrs some of the blaze luster has faded. I suspect that they might be graded lower if resubmitted. This is one of the things that worries me about paying for bright red gems.
Jim
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Posted 09/16/2010 11:29 am
