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Pillar of the Community
 Australia
1295 Posts |
OK given that: 1. I am not neccesarily looking for a bargain, just a nice piece that I am happy with 2. I want something genuine, and given that the P word in Australian instantly doubles the prices this relegates me to buying something online. 3. I dont want to risk using ebay as I will freely admit I dont have the skills to pick a forgery from a picture (or most likely even if I have the coin in hand for that matter) 4. Where should I look at buying one? Anyone have some suggestions? Do you have someone you use Bob? Mark Edited by markn
08/29/2006 7:48 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5362 Posts |
mnemtsas - you can buy a graded Portrait dollar on ebay provided you bid on one encapsulated by a reputable TPG like ANACS. That is about as safe as you can get. In addition, you can get raw Portrait dollars in lower grades from reputable ebay dealers who KNOW what forgeries look like. I know a couple ebay dealers that I would trust 100% not to sell you a fake. I don't know if I can post their names on this forum or not. I don't want to appear to shill for just a few guys. Or if you see a likely candidate - ask me for an opinion. I can't guarantee that I will be right 100% of the time, but I will certainly try to give you a heads up on any pitfalls. |
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
1295 Posts |
Bob can you let me know (via email if you like) the name of the dealers, I'd prefer raw, but failing that I will crack the coins out of a holder. I dont see why recommending someone shouldn't be allowed here.
Mark
Edited by markn
08/29/2006 9:27 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4589 Posts |
There are CArlos and Johanna Pillar Silver Reales On Treasure Hunter Right Now for $225. I do not know if you get that cahnnel there, But I think they are 1 reales that they are showing
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
1295 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4589 Posts |
It Looks good to me , but I would not take my word for it, wait for SwamperBob, I am sure he can tell you to the best of his ability - vs. the photo. I would not be able to see what he can, he does an Amazing Job .
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5362 Posts |
mnemtsas - the coin in the link you posted is real but to me it looks like it was cleaned at one time. I know the seller. She (Cora) is from North Carolina (my home state) and I have visited her shop. Her husband (Louis Hudson) is the expert on these items and like myself he is good at identifing counterfeits. I would generally trust their attributions. If I have any tendency to disagree with Louis it is in the area of age of the forgery. He tends to categorize too many counterfeits as "Contemporary Circulating issues".
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
1295 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
1295 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5362 Posts |
That is a nice looking example of a real 8R - there is a small test cut near 1 o'clock on the portrait side but that is not distracting and the strike in this case is good for the type. This would be a likely candidate for the "kind of coin" that was transported to Australia as a result of the Proclaimation.
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
1295 Posts |
Thanks Bob! My wife has given the stamp of approval on this coin too so I'm moving forward with it!
Edited by markn
09/08/2006 5:32 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
1295 Posts |
Edited by markn
09/25/2006 12:07 am
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
1295 Posts |
As well as the test cut at 1 O'Clock on the obverse I've noticed the following features of interest on this great 8R Portrait I think I am seeing some die clashing running through the HISPAN on the reverse. There are incuse denticles running just inside the normal ones from the dot just before the H in HISPAN right through to the N. Also there look to be incuse reverse images of some of the letters on the obverse around some of the letters in HISPAN. In particular you can 1:see the uprights of the U from CAROLUS around the P in HISPAN\ 2:clearly see the outline of the O from CAROLUS in between the A and the N of HISPAN. Well I think this is die clashing, perhaps I have the wrong term but I definitely see something odd there.  Die cracks on the obverse running from the dot before the 17 of the date. One of them is clearly showing wear at the high point where it runs across Carolus III's robe.  Edited by markn
09/25/2006 12:46 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5362 Posts |
mnemtsas - That is a VERY nice copy and not a forgery. I am glad that it worked out with Ernie. He is a very nice fellow and I have known him a few years. I am also glad that your wife likes the coin. The pictures you posted are super and I think you appreciate the nature of this series now. You call it "character" - that is an excellent word to use. These older coins were made far differently than modern coins. This was the era of handwork - not mechanization. That is why I fell in love with these coins when I was a kid. The modern coins made after the introduction of the three die press are STERILE.
The term you used "clash" is exactly the correct one in this case. The dies came together without a planchet in between and the dies hit with great force. It happened all the time because planchets were positioned between the moving dies BY HAND. I can't imagine sticking my fingers in there. It may be that the cracks you see in the reverse die were caused by the original clash. The clash happened when the dies were in a slightly different (possibly tilted) alignment. The missalignment of the dies was rather pronounced at the time of the strike. When this happened it often stopped production because the dies had to be re-worked to remove the more obvious (central) signs of the clash. It is very likely that there was originally more of a clash present and that the dies were "lapped" (filed down) to remove some of the clash. It would be interesting to see if you can match the dentil and letter spacing from the clash with this particular reverse die. Quite often die pairs were broken up after clashes because typically one die was damage more than the other.
It is a very nice coin and could be one of the "Proclaimation" coins as easily as not.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5362 Posts |
mnemtsas - I just re-read your comment and noticed a minor correction that you should make - just to be precise.
Mexican coins like all Spanish Colonials refer to the die that contains the name of the Country as the obverse die. In this case, that means that the side with the Shield and NOT the side with the King's portrait is the Obverse. The King is on the REVERSE of the coin.
I know that is a picky technicality - but purists of the series use that convention when discussing the coins. Personally I will often say Portrait side and Shield side to make sure there is no confusion. It probably does not sound "professional" but I prefer to be clear in communicating my meanings.
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Posted 08/29/2006 9:06 pm
