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 Replies: 44 / Views: 9,550 |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1461 Posts |
I'm not sure how much "fun" it is when someone is on the losing end of the grading deal from a low res picture. Many collectors buy coins for investment, gifts, etcc and are not expert graders so they like to have an idea of what they are buying. I think grading services are good for the industry and although they may remove some "fun" of rolling the dice, tell that to a guy that just bought an MS64 48 from an "optimistic" dealer only to find out two years down the road every other dealer and a grading service thinks its a 62. Even as an experience coin collector, it's one thing when you see the coin in person and make a judgement call, it's another when you're buying it from a picture online. As "online" becomes the predominant way of buying and selling coins, so will the graded coins. Sure there have been differences between the various services, but as more coins get graded, those gaps are narrowing and better consistency between services will be achieved. Appearance will always be an issue.
Edited by TheCoinHunter
10/19/2013 11:14 am
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Pillar of the Community
1844 Posts |
if the pic is blurred dont buy it..Pretty simple I think , and if the pic is to small same thing dont buy it....As for buying from a dealer again just because they say its so does not make it so... I agree in hand makes all the difference , so if a buyer is not sure then they should walk away..If a deal is toogood to be true it probably is.... I have had been on the short end a few times so I know all about it...
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New Member
Canada
5 Posts |
Hi Folks, I am pretty new at collecting coins and now concentrating only on Canadian. I have bought 3 ICCS coins recently from ebay but now reading this advice I am a little worried I got some fakes maybe. These are Canadian nickles 1925 F-12, 1926 Far 6 F-12 x 2. How now can I be 100% sure they are #1) correct graded #2) Not fake. Would ICCS do this for free? if so, how do I contact them for the advice? Thanks! Rob |
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Pillar of the Community
1844 Posts |
Hi Rob and  ...Ok the odds of them being fake are very slim..As for the grades it comes down to if you ar happy..If your not sure post some pics here and we can give you our 2 cents on what we feel... |
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Valued Member
Canada
109 Posts |
"how much time do these "experts" spend grading these coins when they miss stuff that most amateurs would catch with ease?"
Grading time depends on the coin....the higher the grade the more time you spend. An MS-62 will take a trained eye 10-15 seconds, An MS-68 may take several minutes. Some coins are borderline. Grading is an "Art" Not a mechanical process and takes years to aquire. Yes it's an opinion to a degree but grading companies have several graders thus moving away from opinion and towards fact and were set up to protect newbies. No you don't have to grade but to buy a raw coin if you don't have the experience is a pig-in-a-poke....
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Valued Member
83 Posts |
I agree that grading can be described as an "art"
But it is an art that is definitely based in the science of observation and comparison.
But it's not "rocket-science", and in my opinion there are far too many collectors out there who feel intimidated about trusting their own judgement when it comes to assessing grade by a bit of an elitist attitude that sometimes exhibits itself in the "Hobby of Kings".
With a little encouragement I would say that most collectors can learn the basics if they are determined to do so, and can soon be capable of having confidence in their abilities to do so.
As to how much time a "professional" grader spends on assessing the grade of any particular coin, this cannot be assumed as a generality. Each grader and / or grading company may have its own way of approaching their business.
As has been mentioned by others, PCGS is a big company and is attributed to have a rigorous standard in which several graders will handle a coin and make comparisons -- on the other hand ICCS is a father / son operation.
Speaking of "handling" coins, I have been told by someone that has been in the room, that a particular company does their grading by simply putting coin on a projector and displaying image of coin on a large screen.
They go through hundreds of coins in a session, viewing most for very short periods of time, and "handling" a coin for a closer look only to make further determination if there is some doubt as to variety or potential of it being counterfeit.
Suggesting that 3rd party grading companies exist for the benefit of protecting newbies may be a bit naïve. They are businesses, and their main objective is to make a profit -- the more coins they are able to "process" in the shortest amount of time the greater the increases to their bottom-line.
Somewhat akin to how little time your doctor wants to spend with you "diagnosing" your well-being, and seems more motivated just to get you in-and-out of there and maximize on patient billings.
Scott's Canadian Coins
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1581 Posts |
How many ICCS/CCCS MS-68 are there, combined?
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
867 Posts |
What are you all buying that you are afraid of fakes and counterfeits? My biggest worry is that Cda Post will lose it after I buy it.
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Valued Member
83 Posts |
Hi Tripoli, In my experience no need too worry about lost items - Canada Post has a phenomenal record for successful delivery of items. Like most reviews, anecdotal information tends to focus on the negative, when it is actually a rare occurrence for mail to not reach destination. I have worked for CPC, and know that often reports of mail going undelivered are a result of the loss or theft of mail, AFTER it has been delivered to address. Make sure that you have a secure locked box for delivery that no one else has access to. Also, if you buy your coins on ebay and make payment with PayPal, you are 100% protected in the event that you don't get your item. Re: Quote:
What are you all buying that you are afraid of fakes and counterfeits? Re-read what danlos talks about in his post - experienced and knowledgeable collectors know that there are lots of fake coins floating around out there - and some of them so well made that they can fool an expert that doesn't take enough time in examination. And it's not just rare dates / high value coins - it's very surprising how many normal date coins have been counterfeited. Scott's Canadian Coins |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1581 Posts |
Quote:
And it's not just rare dates / high value coins - it's very surprising how many normal date coins have been counterfeited.
Easy to do a date run. The result is many with the same die markers, and using the wrong obverses. But, it could be said, a full series with a look will mask the key dates with the same look. They won't stand out if it looks like a lot of other fakes. Edited by dialog_gvf
10/22/2013 1:40 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
867 Posts |
Sorry I went back and re-read post from beginning....here is my contribution to the thread....1940 50 Cent Piece   |
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Valued Member
83 Posts |
It's obvious that this topic has a high level of interest, noted by the fact that this post has the highest number of views and 2nd highest number of responses in the "Canadian Coin, Bank Note, and Paper Money Grading" forum category for the past 12 months. Seems like we all have strong views in regards to the subject of grading and the value / reliability / integrity of 3rd party grading companies, and their differing business models and practices. I've started a new post to give everyone a chance to test their skills against some examples that have been graded by ICCS and PCGS. Here is the link - Have fun :) https://goccf.com/t/161115#161115 |
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Valued Member
Canada
86 Posts |
It is disconcerting for me to read that forgeries can pass the expertise of a TPG. Are the likelihood of this happening greater for a TPG grading a coin from another country? (e.g. PCGS grading Canadian coins or ICCS grading US coins) However, I still go by my favorite moto '' buy the coin not the holder''  Edited by coconet
10/26/2013 10:37 am
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1581 Posts |
BTW, the answer to my question for CCCS appears to be: zero
The online population report shows no MS-68 for business strikes, and one PF-69 (1987 dollar)
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Valued Member
83 Posts |
Re coins_2013:
Quote:I am pretty new at collecting coins and now concentrating only on Canadian. I have bought 3 ICCS coins recently from ebay... nickles 1925 F-12, 1926 Far 6 F-12 x 2. How now can I be 100% sure they are #1) correct graded #2) Not fake.
Hi Rob,
Welcome to CCF
Sorry your post got lost in the midst of a rather busy topic. There was a bit of a whirlwind going around on that one 
Don't want you to get the impression that fake coins are rampant (in ICCS holders) - topic was referring more to raw coins, and the possibilities that there are some fakes that make it past the 3rd party graders. 99.9% probability is that your coins are genuine.
Post some clear, up-close, in-focus photos of both sides of coins (under a new post), and you'll get some opinions of genuiness and grade. |
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Posted 10/19/2013 3:00 pm
