Bad Paypal Experience

Anything new on getting this resolved?

Does that mean Paypal has sided with you and will return your money?

Does the seller still maintain he mailed Morgans?

Paypal just released the funds to me. After the signature confirmation was received that he got the IKEs in return. I am glad this is over with. I am keeping the police report and the paypal case just in case the Postal inspectors need additional info. I wanted to email the guy and tell him off, but I decided against it due to the fact it will not solve anything. I am glad paypal helped, but it seemed like I had jump through hoops to get it.

That's good news. Glad to hear it.

Glad it worked out, lesson learned!

I really expected the seller to tell paypal that he sent you Morgans and you sent him ikes to get your money back so if paypal sides with you he is losing not only the coins but payment for the coins he sent you in the first place. I am glad it worked out for you but next time I would deal on ebay so at least you have two layers of protection instead of just one

I believe that is one of the biggest myths regarding online sales. There are numerous ways in which an individual (or group of individuals) may set up a fly-by-night website scheme that appears to be completely legit.

Noticed the "surprise" from individuals in this thread because "it all worked out" for the OP? This is another myth: You have more protection conducting your transactions on eBay/PayPal than you do off of it.

Really? ebay/PayPal are neither law enforcement nor government agencies. They are corporations with a legal obligation that tends toward self-preservation. It is the law: they must conduct themselves in the best interest of their stock holders, within the constraints of the law.

Do you think PayPal would have really cared if they did not know that there was an eminent federal fraud investigation underway? And the seller as well, for that matter? Is it really any surprise that PayPal washed its hands of this whole matter? And is it really any surprise the seller did not try to retort the return?

We are not talking about some seller taking a sum of cash away from you and you simply find someone else to fraud because you were too afraid to work with the government that is there to enforce the law. We are talking about hard prison time, treble damages, attorney fees, and punitive damages. The same goes to PayPal as an accessory (less the prison time).

I have consulted with and advised clients on these matters for the past sixteen years (the past ten on only a part-time basis). And the fact of the matter is that there is an executive branch in our governments. The purpose of this branch is the execution of the laws of the land.

When the law states that something is illegal, the members of this branch are there to enforce that law. And there are many different entities in the government that perform this action in specific situations. In the case of the OP, it was the Attorney Generals (State government) and the Postal Inspectors (federal government).

If a matter is found to be unlawful, it falls into the hands of the judicial branch (thus what we term as an action of tort: breach of contract, errors and omissions, professional malpractice, etc).

The lesson to be learned here is far from "make sure to conduct your transactions on ebay". Far from it! It is that there are government agencies in existence whose purpose is to investigate and charge for illegal commercial activities and people simply need to stop whining about everything under the sun and start using them.

And if it is a matter of tort, start suing. It does not cost as much as many believe, and you have a right in most jurisdictions for compensation up to treble your damages plus punitive damages the judge may see fit to impose.

Neither ebay nor PayPal are needed. Sure it may take longer to receive justice and/or recompense, but it will come. I personally applaud the OP in pursuing this matter in such a way as to protect his rights as a consumer.

nod2003, no offense taken! Each person has a (usually) very different outlook on situations dependent upon their own bias (experience) on the matter. Quite true, the lawyer(s) will almost always walk away with the largest piece of the pie. A lawyer costs the most when they have to actually appear in court.

However, that does not mean (if you are confident enough) that you cannot hire an attorney for purposes of consultation and paralegal services. This is comparatively less expensive. If the attorney is confident enough after an initial consultation, he may even work for you under contingency.

In many jurisdictions, the attorneys may be awarded their fees in the adjudication. And, after adjudication, any unpaid judgment will begin to acrue interest. Here in Wyoming, we get 10% per annum on the original judgment.

So, figure if the payment made to the seller was $1200, treble actual damages would bring that to $3600. Now, even if the judge ruled no punitive damages in your favor, that is still a 200% profit.

Naturally, there is going to be some work involved, but that is still a pretty good turn around. Now, in Wyoming that would also be an extra 82 cents daily until the balance had been paid to you. All you have to do is make the attempts to collect (send a monthly bill) and you can keep making that interest.

If you would rather have the cold hard cash, you could always sell the debt for $1500 and let someone else collect it. That is still an equitable profit. Or, you can simply garnish the full award through court action, which will only cost another $20-30 out of pocket.

When investing, these are actions to always consider prior to making your investment. You should have a take on all possible angles to the transactions you make. And you should always have a clear and concise exit plan to every eventuality.

If you are a serious investor, you should be able to retain the consulting services of a lawyer for as little as $300-500 annually. This will also help build a relationship with an local attorney and could give you better fees overall if you need to use him/her for other purposes.

Anyway, that's my take on the situation. Personally, I would rather receive a Treasury check for the amount (or just under) that I lost and have the "scum" sitting in prison for fraud for however long the Postal Inspectors/DoJ were able to convince a judge was necessary. In this way, even more people are protected.