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 Replies: 17 / Views: 2,723 |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts |
One look at the sitting liberty coin made me shut it off. I suggest keeping away.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
1348 Posts |
Well thats why I am asking here. I know ebay isn't the best bet but I'm wondering if these could be fakes. Does anyone see any evidence of that? I can probably get these for cheap but I don't want fakes. I want problem coins (holed, chipped, the green junk, tooled, cleand, etc.) |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6396 Posts |
The pictures aren't large and sharp enough to give me a good comfort level that the coins are genuine. PCGS now slabs problem coins in their Genuine holders; I presume these coins were submitted for grading before the Genuine slab service was offered. Since they aren't in a slab it's possible that these coins were never actually authenticated by PCGS. Still, they could be genuine and are high-grade examples with very low current bids. The seller has good feedback and offers a money-back guarantee and the buyer is protected by ebay, so maybe the risk is acceptable. If I could pick up (for example) that damaged/tooled AU details Capped Bust quarter for less than half the price of an original coin I might be tempted. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1348 Posts |
Thanks guys. I am still pondering.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2335 Posts |
I'm confused. In the body of the auction it says the coins were submitted to PCGS in June of this year. I thought PCGS put problem coins in genuine slabs now....so why are these unslabbed?
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
they shouldn't be unslabbed, PCGS will place problem coins genuine holders if they are genuine, so if they were submitted when he says they were they must not be genuine. At least that's the only scenario I can think of they would not be in a PCGS Genuine holder. I have NEVER seen PCGS list the problems a coin has on the label like that either, they usually just use a code for the problem for their Genuine holders. I am not sure how the secure plus works with problem coins but I am sure those would definitely be in a slab instead of like this
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Valued Member
United States
184 Posts |
why would he pay 45 dollars to get it to say there is a problem with a coin but then sell it for a couple of bucks. Well maybe he's hoping lots of people will bid.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
4618 Posts |
I just read the FAQ for Secure Plus. They DO NOT place a coin with damage in a Genuine Holder under Secure Plus Grading.
25. Q: Will "genuine" coins be in the Secure Plus holders?
DW: We will not be placing Genuine coins in Secure Plus holders.
So the coins were just body bagged, tagged and returned, if I'm reading things right.
ANA ID: 3203813 - CONECA ID: N-5637 Clean a coin that may be worth collecting? Please DON'T! When in doubt, leave it dirty!! 
Edited by Yokozuna
07/15/2011 10:22 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
931 Posts |
This counterfeit stuff is getting ridiculous. Perhaps we should start asking seller avquestion in bulk. I'm going for him now.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4618 Posts |
I don't think these are counterfeit and I don't think the seller knew what he was getting into. He sent them in for PCGS Secure Plus grading, so he must have thought they were original coins. Now he out whatever he spent on the coins, the cost from PCGS and he just wants to put things behind him. He's being open about what happened to him and not trying to sell the coins as original.
That's the good part. The bad part is that someone will try to pass them off again as original and someone will buy them. PCGS has scanned them and they can never be passed off as original to them. From what I read about Secure Plus, they won't share any of the fingerprinting of the coin with the other grading services, but I'm sure they can detect the alterations too.
So, if things go right, these coins will drop off the market and we'll never see them again, but chances are, they'll keep coming up and some low standard grading service will say they're perfectly okay.
I'd like to buy them all and make sure they never pass on to anyone again, but I can't afford the price. I only hope the buyers do the right thing and not sell them to someone who can't spot alterations, tooling and cleaning, but with the prices on some of them, it looks as if they'll try to do something with them.
ANA ID: 3203813 - CONECA ID: N-5637 Clean a coin that may be worth collecting? Please DON'T! When in doubt, leave it dirty!!
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
Quote:
I just read the FAQ for Secure Plus. They DO NOT place a coin with damage in a Genuine Holder under Secure Plus Grading.
25. Q: Will "genuine" coins be in the Secure Plus holders?
DW: We will not be placing Genuine coins in Secure Plus holders.
PCGS has changed that from what I understand. They had a press release stating they would be offering secure program for problem coins Quote:
PCGS Secure Plus™ will be expanded to include Economy level submissions. The price for Economy Secure Plus will be $25 (vs. Standard Economy at $18).
Plus grading will be offered for all Economy submissions, including both Standard as well as Secure Plus. There is no extra charge for this.
No-grade "Genuine" coins will now be allowed in Secure Plus holders. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4618 Posts |
Bryan, you're correct, but the new rule doen't take effect until August 1, 2011. I was referring to why the coins on ebay were not encapsulated. They were submitted in June of 2011, under the current rules, so they were returned with no holder, just a label stating what was wrong with them. The rule changes for the "+" programs can be found here: http://www.pcgs.com/articles/articl...l?artid=6850 ANA ID: 3203813 - CONECA ID: N-5637 Clean a coin that may be worth collecting? Please DON'T! When in doubt, leave it dirty!!
Edited by Yokozuna
07/17/2011 10:02 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3755 Posts |
EVERY time someone asks about any raw coin around here, half of what you hear is RUN AWAY SCREAMING THEY ARE ALL FAKE AAAAAAGGGGHHHHH. Yeesh. Enough to drive me nuts. Those are the infamous body bags that PCGS used to use. I got back a toned Morgan in one of their new genuine slabs (I have pics here https://goccf.com/t/91961&whichpage=1 Now I sent that in as a normal grading. As Yoko points out the secure plus stuff is different. And Yoko, when you say they aren't original, you mean that the damage they suffered makes them not original condition, yes? Anyway, in answer to the original question, if you are buying these to complete a problem book, then these are exactly the thing to get. I do wish he had some closer detail pics though. I might go after that bust, but I'm not going to trust what "tooling" is if I cant see the coin better. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
Quote:
The bad part is that someone will try to pass them off again as original and someone will buy them. PCGS has scanned them and they can never be passed off as original to them. Depends on what the problem is. Yes they have been scanned and can never be slabbed under the Secure Plus program, but if they are sent in under the regular tiers they aren't scanned or sniffed, so that Secure Plus rejection will not come up and they might still get into a regular holder. Not the tooled ones of course, but chemically altered pieces might. Edited by Conder101
07/19/2011 10:24 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4618 Posts |
True, but PCGS wants to scan all coins that go through at any tier. As they put it, "that is down the road." They know that people will try to get around the system and they want to do it to see if the coins have been submitted under the Secure Plus program. I'm sure people with crack out coins that don't get a plus when the owner thinks it should. Who knows if they'll do it, but I hope they do. Not that I've ever had a coin that would need to be submitted to the Secure Plus.  ANA ID: 3203813 - CONECA ID: N-5637 Clean a coin that may be worth collecting? Please DON'T! When in doubt, leave it dirty!!
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Posted 07/15/2011 09:08 am
